Main line train trouble apparently

[Tricky Dicky]

So you're suggesting a not-for-profit rail franchise based on chaos?

You'd want two companies to provide a service from Brighton to Victoria, for example? To what end?

I didn't say not for profit - I'm quite happy with profits for shareholders if they are providing a service to warrant it, but not skimming off money to give to them before or above proving the service (less attractive to the shareholders, I know).

Not quite what you're chaos reference it pertaining to really, with respect to my comment.

Two companies on the same line, absolutely, to compete on service level if not prices. There is no true privatisation without competition, which is only currently present in the bidding process.

 

[Ernest]

Having 2 companies compete on the same line is impossible and anyone who thinks it is is BARMY

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Apparently not! I take it all back, who wouldn't want a heated seat, especially for the 9-10 months a year when it's not cold...

Oh yeah, there's also a couple of plug sockets too.

I lied, they are the same. Sorry.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Having 2 companies compete on the same line is impossible and anyone who thinks it is is BARMY

You do now on some. Southern v FCC v Gatwick Express. I never said it would work or would happen anyway, just said what I would like to see, which is what I was asked.

 

[Guinness Boy]

http://www.borrowed-heaven.net/private/2013/09/09/4405/

For those who still fail to understand why the knock on effects from something like yesterday's incident go on for so long, the above is an excellent article written after yesterday's events.

That of course explains SOME of the logistical issues but not the complete inability of Southern to communicate effectively. My train home yesterday was actually on time although it was short formed. Since many had worked from home however I had a seat. All good.

The only problem was that had I believed their website (set to MAJOR DISRUPTION) or twitter feed I would barely have felt confident of getting home this week. What's more it just kept updating that the disruption would be till the next hour. So at 14.30 it said 'till 15.00', at 15.30 it said 'tll 16:00' and so on. Then there's the misleading arrival time Arthur recorded and trains changed AT THE LAST MINUTE to avoid a station (this seems to happen at Redhill constantly because of the slow / fast line split - pity as that's where I change).

The information in the morning rush when I was late (but prepared to understand due to the fatality) was nothing short of pathetic. In just three trains the 07.14 was showing as running on my app but was in fact cancelled while the 07.24 should have left before the 07.29 but actually left after it. This is what makes me mad. Not that someone has killed themselves but that, when they do, staff whose job is logistics can't provide basic accurate information.

I agree with the blogger that being miffed that you'll be 20 mins late when someone's topped themselves is wrong but that's rarely why I'm miffed. I normally am because I cannot set the expectations of my staff and clients because Southern have poor communication systems, unqualified staff and, pretty much, seem to make it up on the spot.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Ok for the record I used to get annoyed at the suicides but then as they are A) not that often B) traumatic for all those actually involved incl the train driver I dont anymore.

HOWEVER

Broken down carriages, broken rails, signal failures, not enough carriages, drivers not knowing the way, faulty doors, uncomfortable shitty trains (FCC And Southerns red n whites IM LOOKING AT YOU) etc etc

I DO GET ****ING ANGRY. I PAY THROUGH THE NOSE FOR THESE NOT TO HAPPEN YET IT STILL DOES.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

http://www.borrowed-heaven.net/private/2013/09/09/4405/

For those who still fail to understand why the knock on effects from something like yesterday's incident go on for so long, the above is an excellent article written after yesterday's events.

Great read, although it will all fall on deaf ears with some people.

That of course explains SOME of the logistical issues but not the complete inability of Southern to communicate effectively. My train home yesterday was actually on time although it was short formed. Since many had worked from home however I had a seat. All good.

The only problem was that had I believed their website (set to MAJOR DISRUPTION) or twitter feed I would barely have felt confident of getting home this week. What's more it just kept updating that the disruption would be till the next hour. So at 14.30 it said 'till 15.00', at 15.30 it said 'tll 16:00' and so on. Then there's the misleading arrival time Arthur recorded and trains changed AT THE LAST MINUTE to avoid a station (this seems to happen at Redhill constantly because of the slow / fast line split - pity as that's where I change).

The information in the morning rush when I was late (but prepared to understand due to the fatality) was nothing short of pathetic. In just three trains the 07.14 was showing as running on my app but was in fact cancelled while the 07.24 should have left before the 07.29 but actually left after it. This is what makes me mad. Not that someone has killed themselves but that, when they do, staff whose job is logistics can't provide basic accurate information.

I agree with the blogger that being miffed that you'll be 20 mins late when someone's topped themselves is wrong but that's rarely why I'm miffed. I normally am because I cannot set the expectations of my staff and clients because Southern have poor communication systems, unqualified staff and, pretty much, seem to make it up on the spot.

The "until XX:XX" times are something that really need sorting by National Rail, if you dont 100% know when its going to be sorted, they should just say "Until further notice" as then you arent going to make people think their journey is going to be trouble free if for example they are travelling at 16:00 and it actually says "Until 15:00".

Often the staff have little information to work from (and I have been in this situation) so they cant do anything else other than repeat the same things. The Southern Control isnt great at relaying information to staff, so as a result, frontline staff will have to deal with hundreds of people asking the same things, but cant actually give answers - this is something that seriously needs changing as its unfair on both the passengers (who want the info) and the staff (who are surrounded by people who want info but cant actually give any out). Some staff (again I know from experience) dont have brilliant customer service skills either, similarly you could also be dealing with a member of staff who has had limited training and this is their first major disruption scenario - basically you got to bear with staff who are actually trying and give up with those who quite frankly couldnt give a toss about you.

Your often better off getting info from your phone nowadays too, seems Southern are more focused on Twitter than getting info to staff on the station, which is equally important.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

seems Southern are more focused on Twitter than getting info to staff on the station, which is equally important.

Aint that the truth. BELLENDS.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Ok for the record I used to get annoyed at the suicides but then as they are A) not that often B) traumatic for all those actually involved incl the train driver I dont anymore.

HOWEVER

Broken down carriages, broken rails, signal failures, not enough carriages, drivers not knowing the way, faulty doors, uncomfortable shitty trains (FCC And Southerns red n whites IM LOOKING AT YOU) etc etc

I DO GET ****ING ANGRY. I PAY THROUGH THE NOSE FOR THESE NOT TO HAPPEN YET IT STILL DOES.

Understandable and when I was a commuter it drove me mad. But the multitude of causes means it's very difficult to apportion blame accurately. For example, earlier in this thread people were moaning at idiots not moving down the carriage = cause general public. Signal failure = cause Network Rail. Broken down train = could be the train company, could be something left on the track by joe public, could be an idiot holding the doors open and breaking them (this happens ALL the time), Broken rail = Network Rail, uncomfortable shitty trains = could be train companies, could be (in the case of the 313's) what the Dft have dictated are to be used. Power supply problems = could be Network Rail, could be cable theft etc etc

I would be furious if I was still a commuter but as ever the causes are so varied and the solutions so complex and expensive that it means it will never change. But communication is one relatively cheap and easy way of easing some of the problems.

 

[Ernest]

You do now on some. Southern v FCC v Gatwick Express. I never said it would work or would happen anyway, just said what I would like to see, which is what I was asked.

Those are the 2 companies that are being amalgamated shortly

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Those are the 2 companies that are being amalgamated shortly

I assume you mean the FCC and Southern/Gatwick Express (same company, just brand names) merger for the next franchise ?

That could make things easier, though the franchise will be huge with boundaries of Ashford, Kings Lynn, Peterborough, Bedford, MK and Southampton. Hopefully First dont get awarded it.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I assume you mean the FCC and Southern/Gatwick Express (same company, just brand names) merger for the next franchise ?

That could make things easier, though the franchise will be huge with boundaries of Ashford, Kings Lynn, Peterborough, Bedford, MK and Southampton. Hopefully First dont get awarded it.

Correct - I think we find out next year who gets it. Will be Southern, First or one of three others.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Those are the 2 companies that are being amalgamated shortly

That's irrelevent, as you stated two competing companies is not possible, when it clearly is. Whether it is viable, is a different matter.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Correct - I think we find out next year who gets it. Will be Southern, First or one of three others.

Quick search shows that First, Govia (Southern), Stagecoach (South West Trains), Abellio (Greater Anglia) and MTR (who only have 50% of London Overground) are the bidders.

Out of that lot, Id prefer Govia, who know what they are doing with the majority of the network already, or Stagecoach, who have done a good job with South West Trains and Virgin Trains. Of course it will be whoever pays the most money though, as we found out with the Virgin Trains issue last year.

 

[swd40]

...

 

[Lincoln Imp]

As long as your 30 minutes late +, you can claim. A delay is a delay at the end of the day.

And you may think its understandable, a quick look on twitter shows any people who dont think that way and are only concerned about themselves - society these days.

As long as your what is 30 minutes late?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Because more often than not there are seats somewhere else on the train, but everyone just gets on at the same place in the middle of the train instead of moving down.

If your too lazy to look for a seat, then you can get fined for all I care.

As long as your what is too lazy to look for a seat?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Did notice this morning at East Croydon there were a number of people in Samaritans bibs at the barriers. Good call after two jumpers in the Croydon area in the past ten days. And no they probably weren't there to console Palace fans before somebody suggests it.

 

[Seagulls over Lewes]

Another person hit a New Cross Gate this afternoon.

 

[TrevorDove]

It's all very well that article, it explains the reasons for the delays and is all very good - I believe that I am compassionate, and appreciate it's a horrible thing when someone takes their lives but as other posters have put- it's the inept response to ANY sort of delay, let's not get emotional about the cause, it's immaterial to people's rants and their anger at Southern.

I seriously doubt it would be that difficult to model different scenario's on a computer and put some sort of contingency plan in place - even if was a bit raw it's better than the chaos that ensues any time there is a negative scenario on the railway line.