Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[ManOfSussex]

Depressing statistic I read in The Times earlier. In The Republic of Ireland on Saturday they tested 8000 people compared to 18000 here, when we have a population 10x greater than them.

 

[ManOfSussex]

All I am saying is that for now even those in a difficult personal employment position appear to support the current rules. None of us can know anyway but I remain impressed that support for difficult decisions remains firm.

I also do wonder how a PM who has just come out of an NHS intensive care bed, who raved about The NHS on Sunday and the love and care he received from it, who applauded it when looking very ill 2 weeks ago from his front doorstep before it saved him, could contemplate throwing it and its staff with their lack of PPE, as well the patients it cares for, potentially into a far worse fire by easing lock-down restrictions. There is a balancing act, but he and his government are boxed into a corner somewhat by circumstance.

 

[RossyG]

 

[oldboyroy]

It's coming down in Spain and Italy, even with more testing. This thing is a bugger but the infections will come down if they aren't already.

Providing the social distancing and only essential work conditions continue schools remain closed. When these restriction are lifted it could sky rocket again!!

 

[Jim D]

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Are there any stats on the average number of items of PPE that healthcare workers require each day? I'm assuming that it is many more than one of each. Also, can any of these be washed and re-used? When you hear about millions of items being delivered what period of time would that cover?

 

[ManOfSussex]

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I knew about that. How long does that last for though and when is everyone who needs it currently, getting it, particularly when The RCN come out with statements like this - https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/p...f-not-given-adequate-ppe-says-rcn-14-04-2020/

 

[Kneon Light]

Are there any stats on the average number of items of PPE that healthcare workers require each day? I'm assuming that it is many more than one of each. Also, can any of these be washed and re-used? When you hear about millions of items being delivered what period of time would that cover?

They need a hell of a lot each day.
When I was in hospital there was a bin near the door. Every time a nurse or dr came into my room they had on new ppe. When they had finished with me all the ppe had to be thrown away (in case infected) and new ppe put on. I was being checked on every 2 hours (including through the night) plus a number of other occasions when injections/medication etc was required.
The ambulance driver that picked me up from home ripped his gloves by mistake in our house but they had no spares.

 

[jabba]

Are there any stats on the average number of items of PPE that healthcare workers require each day? I'm assuming that it is many more than one of each. Also, can any of these be washed and re-used? When you hear about millions of items being delivered what period of time would that cover?

I wondered this about the face shields being 3D printed for the NHS around the country. Surely they can be cleaned and sterilised (maybe strong UV) or are they thrown away?

 

[drew]

I wondered this about the face shields being 3D printed for the NHS around the country. Surely they can be cleaned and sterilised (maybe strong UV) or are they thrown away?

I understand the face masks used in ITU, ie the full mask covering the face (looks a bit like a welders masks) can't be cleaned and sterilised and are of single use. In terms of gowns, unit with about 8 patients is using at least 50 a day (also single use).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have not seen anything hence my asking and nothing I’ve seen indicates anything of the sort

Indeed.

People would rather make wild uninformed but very simple predictions about what may happen than read careful but dull and lengthy explanations about the range of uncertainty and its basis.

Even on a thread about COVID.

You couldn't make it up.

Oh, hang on, you can!

(By 'you' I mean 'one'. No wonder people carry on the way they do when our language so easily slips into ambiguity <sigh>)

 

[dazzer6666]

I understand the face masks used in ITU, ie the full mask covering the face (looks a bit like a welders masks) can't be cleaned and sterilised and are of single use. In terms of gowns, unit with about 8 patients is using at least 50 a day (also single use).

Yep - cleaning fluid degrades the visor material too quickly, so they get binned after one use.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I understand the face masks used in ITU, ie the full mask covering the face (looks a bit like a welders masks) can't be cleaned and sterilised and are of single use. In terms of gowns, unit with about 8 patients is using at least 50 a day (also single use).

There may be a misunderstanding here.

Masks designed for use by hospital staff working with patients vulnerable to bacterial infection (masks to protect the patient in other words) may be 'deemed' single use because under ordinary circumstances it may not be cost-effective to do the cleaning. Some bacteria are tough little buggers too.

The same masks, however, could be great for protecting hospital staff from sneezing COVA patients, and easily washed (COVA is a fragile virus that disintegrates in soapy water - hence all the hand washing advice) for this purpose.

It is quite possible that wires have been crossed and different issues have been conflated with unfortunate consequences. I absolutely hate conflation and consider it a blight.

 

[dazzer6666]

There may be a misunderstanding here.

Masks designed for use by hospital staff working with patients vulnerable to bacterial infection (masks to protect the patient in other words) may be 'deemed' single use because under ordinary circumstances it may not be cost-effective to do the cleaning. Some bacteria are tough little buggers too.

The same masks, however, could be great for protecting hospital staff from sneezing COVA patients, and easily washed (COVA is a fragile virus that disintegrates in soapy water - hence all the hand washing advice) for this purpose.

It is quite possible that wires have been crossed and different issues have been conflated with unfortunate consequences. I absolutely hate conflation and consider it a blight.

The visor-type masks staff are wearing are single use - they're apparently pretty useless after one shift anyway as become difficult to see through, and then the strength of the cleaning fluid they have to use would ruin them anyway.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The visor-type masks staff are wearing are single use - they're apparently pretty useless after one shift anyway as become difficult to see through, and then the strength of the cleaning fluid they have to use would ruin them anyway.

Fair enough. I stand correct. Just a thought.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yep - cleaning fluid degrades the visor material too quickly, so they get binned after one use.

use a suitable polymer and cleaning agent that doesnt degrade then. im certain they could be cleaned but there is no established safe protocol to do so (effort to collect, contaimination risks, cleaning process, check they were done properly...), so bin them.

 

[Mellotron]

Providing the social distancing and only essential work conditions continue schools remain closed. When these restriction are lifted it could sky rocket again!!

It may rise again but should logically rise at a slower rate given that a number of people should have immunity, and if the testing is in place by then to track, trace and contain, and people are continuing to socially distance where possible, we would hope any second/third waves etc to be smaller.

We would hope.

 

[dazzer6666]

Fair enough. I stand correct. Just a thought.

use a suitable polymer and cleaning agent that doesnt degrade then. im certain they could be cleaned but there is no established safe protocol to do so (effort to collect, contaimination risks, cleaning process, check they were done properly...), so bin them.

Sounds as though they are quite poor quality and not really designed to last more than a shift......

 

[drew]

There may be a misunderstanding here.

Masks designed for use by hospital staff working with patients vulnerable to bacterial infection (masks to protect the patient in other words) may be 'deemed' single use because under ordinary circumstances it may not be cost-effective to do the cleaning. Some bacteria are tough little buggers too.

The same masks, however, could be great for protecting hospital staff from sneezing COVA patients, and easily washed (COVA is a fragile virus that disintegrates in soapy water - hence all the hand washing advice) for this purpose.

It is quite possible that wires have been crossed and different issues have been conflated with unfortunate consequences. I absolutely hate conflation and consider it a blight.

The masks being used in the ITU dept where my wife works are single use. They are the ones that look like a welders mask and you may have seen them on news reports. Patients probably aren't wearing them because, when they can, they are lying face down.

 

[jabba]

The masks being used in the ITU dept where my wife works are single use. They are the ones that look like a welders mask and you may have seen them on news reports. Patients probably aren't wearing them because, when they can, they are lying face down.

Seems strange that we are told that washing our hands with soap for 20 seconds inactivates the virus, but we can't clean the full-face masks. I understand if acetate-based would be clouded by solvents but I would have thought that cleaning and sterilisation should be possible

 

[Bakero]

Seems strange that we are told that washing our hands with soap for 20 min inactivates the virus, but we can't clean the full-face masks. I understand if acetate-based would be clouded by solvents but I would have thought that cleaning and sterilisation should be possible

Have you got any skin left on your hands?