Luton Rabia School 'undermining British values' in treatment of girls

[thisistips]

",

Perhaps. But then the girls going to that school do not have a choice as to whether to go there or somewhere else. And I would suspect that not all of the mothers of these girls are happy for them to receive this education either.

These girls are still British schoolchildren with rights to an education. They should be encouraged and empowered to speak out against this sort of injustice. At the end of the day, the government can legislate against this sort of thing and can take action against it but if you want to see real change, it has to start with normal, extremely brave, people speaking out and standing up for themselves. See the Suffragettes and the Women's Lib movement for example. That is what changed "Victorian" attitudes towards women, not legislation.

This is a good point well made. I add two things: AND as British people upholding our values we should stand shoulder to shoulder with them. They will need to be brave to stand up and be counted, particularly if their families are not in agreement. AND as British people, we should see what is going on and demand that our government discontinue all faith schools. The opportunity for the teaching of warped ideas is too great for them to continue.

 

[BadFish]

They don't have to be anything , they're Australian you goon !
regards
DR

And my brother in law is English? (you 'forgot' to reply to that one) because he was born in London yet only lived in the UK for a few months.

 

[El Presidente]

And my brother in law is English? (you 'forgot' to reply to that one) because he was born in London yet only lived in the UK for a few months.

I would say the litmus test is if he understands irony then he can be counted as English, but if not he's been too subsumed by life down under and should be considered Australian.

 

[KZNSeagull]

",

This is a good point well made. I add two things: AND as British people upholding our values we should stand shoulder to shoulder with them. They will need to be brave to stand up and be counted, particularly if their families are not in agreement. AND as British people, we should see what is going on and demand that our government discontinue all faith schools. The opportunity for the teaching of warped ideas is too great for them to continue.

Indeed. When dealing with any sort of oppression, change has to come from within and they are in a country that generally encourages that sort of thing, so they have an opportunity to grasp it if they want to. They will need to be extremely brave though.

 

[GOM]

And my brother in law is English? (you 'forgot' to reply to that one) because he was born in London yet only lived in the UK for a few months.

Since 1983, just because you are born in Britain does not make you British or entitled to a British passport in the eyes of the law. The tests include

1 When were you born?
On or after 1 January 1983

2 Were you born in the UK or a qualifying territory?
Yes

3 When you were born, was one of your parents a British citizen or legally settled in the UK?
No

4 Has one or both of your parents become a British citizen or legally settled in the UK since you were born?
No

5 Were you adopted by a British citizen in a UK court?
No

You're not a British citizen.

This is taken from the Gov.uk website, other outcomes are possible depending on the answers to the individual questions
for example

1When were you born?
On or after 1 January 1983

2Were you born in the UK or a qualifying territory?
Yes

3When you were born, was one of your parents a British citizen or legally settled in the UK?
No

4Has one or both of your parents become a British citizen or legally settled in the UK since you were born?
Yes

You're not a British citizen

Just for info

 

[BadFish]

Since 1983, just because you are born in Britain does not make you British or entitled to a British passport in the eyes of the law. The tests include

1 When were you born?
On or after 1 January 1983

2 Were you born in the UK or a qualifying territory?
Yes

3 When you were born, was one of your parents a British citizen or legally settled in the UK?
No

4 Has one or both of your parents become a British citizen or legally settled in the UK since you were born?
No

5 Were you adopted by a British citizen in a UK court?
No

You're not a British citizen.

This is taken from the Gov.uk website, other outcomes are possible depending on the answers to the individual questions
for example

1When were you born?
On or after 1 January 1983

2Were you born in the UK or a qualifying territory?
Yes

3When you were born, was one of your parents a British citizen or legally settled in the UK?
No

4Has one or both of your parents become a British citizen or legally settled in the UK since you were born?
Yes

You're not a British citizen

Just for info

Ta, don't get me wrong he considers himself an Aussie with Mauritian heritage. I just wondered how he fitted in to PPF's inflexible thinking. My guess is that the question had made his head explode.

 

[BadFish]

I would say the litmus test is if he understands irony then he can be counted as English, but if not he's been too subsumed by life down under and should be considered Australian.

Nah, he wasn't there long enough.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

no they're Australians with dual passports due to the fact you were born here
rewards
DR

What gives YOU the right to decide this sort of thing?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Wholeheartedly agree, have the buses started running in Whitehawk after dark again yet?

Whitehawks a stroll in the park compared to other places in this country , although to be fair there seems to be an influx of foreign faces sbout the place
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

What gives YOU the right to decide this sort of thing?

I'm not deciding anything it's the truth
regards
DR

 

[cjd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-31481797

Not a good time to be a christian with these muslim savages

 

[looney]

Thanks for your input though it was very revealing, I had never realised that my location upset you so much. You really should mention it more often

You are advocating somethig when you are far removed from any negative consequences and any moral responsibility. Even thos who are in favour admit there are major problems even if not saying disaster etc. You are just sdvocating more of the same without offering solutions.

Its a bit like Cameron saying everyone needs to pay back the bankers(We are all in it together) money, but continually hectors the poor who suffer disproportionatly from taxes while he and his chums remain nicely cusioned from the vagries of povertyt. Your chums her being Rex Carthagia (USA) and Dave in Praque(Czech).

Yes you are entitled to your opinions but understand if you are considered callous, destructive and clueless ********s it is a valid opinion.

 

[BadFish]

You are advocating somethig when you are far removed from any negative consequences and any moral responsibility. Even thos who are in favour admit there are major problems even if not saying disaster etc. You are just sdvocating more of the same without offering solutions.

Its a bit like Cameron saying everyone needs to pay back the bankers(We are all in it together) money, but continually hectors the poor who suffer disproportionatly from taxes while he and his chums remain nicely cusioned from the vagries of povertyt. Your chums her being Rex Carthagia (USA) and Dave in Praque(Czech).

Yes you are entitled to your opinions but understand if you are considered callous, destructive and clueless ********s it is a valid opinion.

I am not advocating anything I am merely questioning the validity and wisdom of the constant threads that offer 'proof' that their is some kind of islamic conspiracy being drip dripped into Western culture.

I would suggest that if you think the problem of Islamic extremism is confined to the UK then I think you are very much mistaken. This is a global problem which is eventualy going to require a global solution. It is also worth mentioning that I have many friends and family across the UK so to me this is something that affect me (maybe not directly).

It may be a bit like your Cameron example, but really it isn't really much like it. Cameron's opinions and actions have a direct effect on the bankers whereas mine will have little effect on the Islamic situation.

My opinion is that continuing to vilify and blame all muslims for the actions of a few and trying to find an angle in every news story that involves a Muslim is dangerous and counter productive to what we should be trying to achieve.

If someone considers me callous, destructive and clueless then I would suggest that they have misunderstood the points I have been making on this subject. If this is what you think then you too are welcome to your opinions but it would be nice if you based them on what I write rather than your own assumptions.

Ultimately though I don't really care if people don't think I have the right to post about this subject. It is something that interests me and I think that some of the stuff that gets posted on these threads is incorrect, vile and dangerous. I think these opinions need challenging and am happy to add my voice to those others who disagree (it is far from the three of us that you name who disagree with the stuff that is posted so I am happy to assume that my opinion doesn't fly in the face of popular opinion and that there is a large number of people who live in the UK that hold similar opinions to me)

 

[looney]

Bloody hell your as bad as Pompous Pillock for provarication and dodging the issue

I am not advocating anything I am merely questioning the validity and wisdom of the constant threads that offer 'proof' that their is some kind of islamic conspiracy being drip dripped into Western culture.

This isn't what I said, you are always on the Pro-immigration/threres nothing to worry about side of the argument.

I would suggest that if you think the problem of Islamic extremism is confined to the UK then I think you are very much mistaken. This is a global problem which is eventualy going to require a global solution. It is also worth mentioning that I have many friends and family across the UK so to me this is something that affect me (maybe not directly).

Why not actually reply to what i said rather than what you think I am thinking? Another dodge.

My opinion is that continuing to vilify and blame all muslims for the actions of a few and trying to find an angle in every news story that involves a Muslim is dangerous and counter productive to what we should be trying to achieve.

Nobody is blaming all muslims, people are worried about the bad ones, they worry that letting more in will increase the number of bad ones, that more could turn bad. Again, irrelivant to what I said.

If someone considers me callous, destructive and clueless then I would suggest that they have misunderstood the points I have been making on this subject. If this is what you think then you too are welcome to your opinions but it would be nice if you based them on what I write rather than your own assumptions.

You again are missing the point, its not so much what you say but whom is saying them to whom. cameron may well be right its just the situation that makes you callous. Let me give another example.

You are in a Cafe and a Couple are having a right old barney in front of you so you join in with your opinions. It wont take long for one or both to turn round and say "what the Feck has it got to do with you" "Feck off and mind your own business". Your opinions would be uninformed, as I said, possibly callous because of the lack of info and if you are stirring them up quite possibly destructive.

.

It may be a bit like your Cameron example, but really it isn't really much like it. Cameron's opinions and actions have a direct effect on the bankers whereas mine will have little effect on the Islamic situation.


)

Again youve dodged the issue. Its not the policy that I was comparing but the hectoring of the poor by Cameron is equivellent to you hectoring people on immigration when you are insulated from the consequences.

Ultimately though I don't really care if people don't think I have the right to post about this subject. It is something that interests me and I think that some of the stuff that gets posted on these threads is incorrect, vile and dangerous. I think these opinions need challenging and am happy to add my voice to those others who disagree (it is far from the three of us that you name who disagree with the stuff that is posted so I am happy to assume that my opinion doesn't fly in the face of popular opinion and that there is a large number of people who live in the UK that hold similar opinions to me)

Oh you have the right to post(dodge), and at the same time others have a right to their opinion on what you post. Oh and you opinions do fly in the face of popular opinion! Even immigrants are saying stronger immigration controlls.

But thats something you are less likely to know, because you are the other side of the fecking world! You cherry pick the news as it suits you, that same as I would if talking about Australia. This means you are not fully informed, hence your one attempt of a factual point in your failed rebutal was also wrong!

 

[Soulman]

dodge[/i]), and at the same time others have a right to their opinion on what you post. Oh and you opinions do fly in the face of popular opinion! Even immigrants are saying stronger immigration controlls.

But thats something you are less likely to know, because you are the other side of the fecking world! You cherry pick the news as it suits you, that same as I would if talking about Australia. This means you are not fully informed, hence your one attempt of a factual point in your failed rebutal was also wrong!

Yep. Same as.

 

[BadFish]

Bloody hell your as bad as Pompous Pillock for provarication and dodging the issue

You call it dodging the issue, i call it correcting your assumption of my opinion.

This isn't what I said, you are always on the Pro-immigration/threres nothing to worry about side of the argument.

I don't think that there is nothing to worry about. However I do think that there is far less to worry about than these threads and the right wing media make it seem.

Why not actually reply to what i said rather than what you think I am thinking? Another dodge.

No just trying to get you to understand my opinion rather than base your replies on your perception of it.

Nobody is blaming all muslims, people are worried about the bad ones, they worry that letting more in will increase the number of bad ones, that more could turn bad. Again, irrelivant to what I said.

As i keep saying by making these threads about every incident that involves a Muslim and framing it as some kind of 'Drip Drip" conspiracy for their 'special treatment" and that their religion is not the 'religion of peace" people are lumping all Muslims together and creating a them and us situation. We are all worried about the bad ones, it is just that some are blurring the lines of distinction between moderate and extreme.

You again are missing the point, its not so much what you say but whom is saying them to whom. cameron may well be right its just the situation that makes you callous. Let me give another example.

You are in a Cafe and a Couple are having a right old barney in front of you so you join in with your opinions. It wont take long for one or both to turn round and say "what the Feck has it got to do with you" "Feck off and mind your own business". Your opinions would be uninformed, as I said, possibly callous because of the lack of info and if you are stirring them up quite possibly destructive.

Your analogy would only really work, if the cafe i was in was somewhere i have frequented for much of life and still holds a place of massive importance in my life AND contained a number of tables being used by my family and friends.

Again youve dodged the issue. Its not the policy that I was comparing but the hectoring of the poor by Cameron is equivellent to you hectoring people on immigration when you are insulated from the consequences.

I thought your analogy here again was poor and I pointed out the reasons. Not dodging the issue at all just responding to your point.

Oh you have the right to post(dodge), and at the same time others have a right to their opinion on what you post. Oh and you opinions do fly in the face of popular opinion! Even immigrants are saying stronger immigration controlls.

I don't think you can say that my opinions fly in the face of popular opinion as you consistently fail to understand what they are (this lastest post is further proof of this). The strawman opinions you are attributing to me may fly in the face of public opinion, although I am not sure about that.

My opinions seem to be fairly normal on my visit to the UK last month and are clearly shared by many who post on these threads. The only people they seem to be at odds with are the select few whoes opinions I am challenging.

But thats something you are less likely to know, because you are the other side of the fecking world! You cherry pick the news as it suits you, that same as I would if talking about Australia. This means you are not fully informed, hence your one attempt of a factual point in your failed rebutal was also wrong!

Everyone cherry picks the news that suits them even you, even you (location makes no difference here). In fact that is one of the problems with these threads, they and the papers that carry the stories pick up non stories just because they can be given a muslim angle.

 

[looney]

You call it dodging the issue, i call it correcting your assumption of my opinion.



I don't think that there is nothing to worry about. However I do think that there is far less to worry about than these threads and the right wing media make it seem.




No just trying to get you to understand my opinion rather than base your replies on your perception of it.



As i keep saying by making these threads about every incident that involves a Muslim and framing it as some kind of 'Drip Drip" conspiracy for their 'special treatment" and that their religion is not the 'religion of peace" people are lumping all Muslims together and creating a them and us situation. We are all worried about the bad ones, it is just that some are blurring the lines of distinction between moderate and extreme.



Your analogy would only really work, if the cafe i was in was somewhere i have frequented for much of life and still holds a place of massive importance in my life AND contained a number of tables being used by my family and friends.





I thought your analogy here again was poor and I pointed out the reasons. Not dodging the issue at all just responding to your point.




I don't think you can say that my opinions fly in the face of popular opinion as you consistently fail to understand what they are (this lastest post is further proof of this). The strawman opinions you are attributing to me may fly in the face of public opinion, although I am not sure about that.

My opinions seem to be fairly normal on my visit to the UK last month and are clearly shared by many who post on these threads. The only people they seem to be at odds with are the select few whoes opinions I am challenging.



Everyone cherry picks the news that suits them even you, even you (location makes no difference here). In fact that is one of the problems with these threads, they and the papers that carry the stories pick up non stories just because they can be given a muslim angle.

For the second and last time my post has nothing to do with your opinions. Its that you are stating them from a position where you are removed from any negative consequences pertaining to the issue, how difficult is this to grasp? Even if you were anti-immigration you would still rub people up the wrong way for the reasons outlined.

If someone landed from Mars and wanted to know from NSC posters about immigration in the UK and NSC posters were qued up in ordewr of merit you would be at the back due to lack of insight. As the word means you are not seeing things from the inside, hence your out of touch pronouncemeants.


Isaid your opinion flys in the face of popular opinion when you claim the majority backs your position when it clearly doesn't, regular surveys show this here but this reflects that you are so out of touch because you are the other side of the world and yes it matters.

 

[BadFish]

For the second and last time my post has nothing to do with your opinions. Its that you are stating them from a position where you are removed from any negative consequences pertaining to the issue, how difficult is this to grasp? Even if you were anti-immigration you would still rub people up the wrong way for the reasons outlined.

If someone landed from Mars and wanted to know from NSC posters about immigration in the UK and NSC posters were qued up in ordewr of merit you would be at the back due to lack of insight. As the word means you are not seeing things from the inside, hence your out of touch pronouncemeants.

Sorry if you feel i am not addressing this point ot your satisfaction but I have responded to this argument over and over. I dsiagree with you, I don't think that my location should mean that I should not comment on these matters. If you wish to dismiss my opinions based on my location then please, be my guest ignore them.

I said your opinion flys in the face of popular opinion when you claim the majority backs your position when it clearly doesn't, regular surveys show this here but this reflects that you are so out of touch because you are the other side of the world and yes it matters.

Once again you are reframing my arguments here. If you go back to the orignial post you will see that I said:

so I am happy to assume that my opinion doesn't fly in the face of popular opinion and that there is a large number of people who live in the UK that hold similar opinions to me

Not the majority but a 'large number'.

Having said this i would be interested to see the polls you speak of, could you post a link. (If i can access them from the far reaches of Mars, of course). Given your track record I am going to assume that these polls do not accurately reflect my opinion at all/

 

[looney]

Sorry if you feel i am not addressing this point ot your satisfaction but I have responded to this argument over and over. I dsiagree with you, I don't think that my location should mean that I should not comment on these matters. If you wish to dismiss my opinions based on my location then please, be my guest ignore them.


Once again you are reframing my arguments here. If you go back to the orignial post you will see that I said:



Not the majority but a 'large number'.

Having said this i would be interested to see the polls you speak of, could you post a link. (If i can access them from the far reaches of Mars, of course). Given your track record I am going to assume that these polls do not accurately reflect my opinion at all/

Again your not bothering to read what i wrote or you are being deliberately obtuse. I have stated you are entitled to your opinion but it will be by definition.

1 Remote, ie uninformed.
2 Arrogant, as well as callous etc
3 Likely to rub people up the wrong way and be more easily dismissed.

You originally claimed a majority.

Polls, below were the first 2 links I came to after putting simple terms in google, goes this reflect your ignorance being in Australia or are you just generally this ignorant?

"Approximately ¾ of people in Britain favour reducing immigration."

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox....migration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern

"There was also a considerable drop in the number of people who believed legal immigrants who were not British citizens should have the same legal rights as British citizens – from 40% in 2003 to 27%."
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/17/immigration-british-attitudes-harden-benefits

 

[BadFish]

Again your not bothering to read what i wrote or you are being deliberately obtuse. I have stated you are entitled to your opinion but it will be by definition.

1 Remote, ie uninformed.
2 Arrogant, as well as callous etc
3 Likely to rub people up the wrong way and be more easily dismissed.

You originally claimed a majority.

Polls, below were the first 2 links I came to after putting simple terms in google, goes this reflect your ignorance being in Australia or are you just generally this ignorant?

"Approximately ¾ of people in Britain favour reducing immigration."

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox....migration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern

"There was also a considerable drop in the number of people who believed legal immigrants who were not British citizens should have the same legal rights as British citizens – from 40% in 2003 to 27%."
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/17/immigration-british-attitudes-harden-benefits

Again showing you lack of understanding of the opinions I am offering and building a strawman construct to respond to. I have not offered an opinion on Immigration and if it should be reduced.

I have also never stated that I assume a majority agree with me.

If people respond in the three ways you mention that is really their problem. Surely the best option for such people would be to argue my ill informed points a and show them to be so or to ignore them.

Sadly you are struggle to do either