[Albion] LoyaltyPointGate - discussion with the club

[spoonie]

I would guess a clearer statement of the problem would be a good start, the threads covered a multitude of issues and 'concerns(gripes)' and i am unsure what the real scale of the problem is.

Is the club trying to stop abuse of the loyalty system or more generally trying to correct loyalty system's flaws (yes abuse is one of them but appears to be identified as a separate item) or both if the latter as said a clear statement of the problems is needed.

Regards the Bournemouth game what is the REAL issue ? Club saying it sold 1200 tickets and only 650 turn up so embarrassing? Or that 550 fans or so have ten points more than some people but didn't travel so didn't earn them. Regards point one the club regularly reports crowd figures higher than actual attendance. Regards the second bit , the club did not make it clear you had to travel to the game it is only implied by the purchase. So you cannot retrospectively deal with that, you could state going forward that points are based on actual attendance. You must be able to track which tickets were scanned, I worked in computing for 35 years this is just bread and butter stuff. Now assuming you track who attends , i buy a ticket for £30 and get 10 points but then don't arrive is it a black and white no you loose your points or is someone going to arbitrate (at a cost) on each case to say that excuse is valid or not? You start opening up a minefield and someone will always feel aggrieved. What do we do about season ticket holders who regularly miss home games and denying people a chance to see a game?

I could go on but won't. I bought a ticket and attended. I have got tickets for the away games that I am able to attend and am not in the first tier of fans

It might be useful if the club held a forum at the Amex where the points could be more easily debated.....

No one would turn up for the forum - like when they debated safe standing and about 50 people could bothered. Lots of people happy to have an opinion but if involves giving up their time and then they don't really care that much.

 

[Bwian]

No one would turn up for the forum - like when they debated safe standing and about 50 people could bothered. Lots of people happy to have an opinion but if involves giving up their time and then they don't really care that much.

They would if there was 10 points up for grabs.

 

[GOM]

What you need to do then is attend more of your away games at The Amex to be in with a shout for your home games just like southern based fans have had to trek all over for games. It is a different animal this season-to get to the 'glamour' games up North and elsewhere means people need to be prepared to do a little more to qualify for tickets. That's not having a dig-it's the reality of life in The Premier League. No need for 'tickets for a fiver' days for MK Dons away to get the numbers up.

Do you really think getting a few lots of 10 points for home matches as a non-STH will enhance the chances of getting an away ticket ?

I have no problem with those who pay the club the most money getting the tickets, but just sad feeling that my old regular 12 -15 away matches per season is at an end and will have to settle for a few games at the Amex.

 

[Hamilton]

Well if you don't go to home games and thus do not contribute to the club then in reality your not as important as the income stream the club receives from STH's! So if you want to support the team then go to a home games and make the investment that many fans that are STH's do when traveling up from Brighton to get to away matches in the North!

And that hits the nail on the head.

It is not a Loyalty scheme, it's an Rewards scheme designed to reward revenue.

I feel for all the Exiles here (and I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of Exiles only membership with 5% of our allocation put aside in the first tier for Exiles to purchase) and I also feel for the club. The club need to balance driving revenue with protecting the interests of fans.

Where things are not working right now is due to the allocation of points (a midweek away fixture in say Stoke has to be worth more than a home League Cup fixture to Barnet, and yet historically it has not been.)

Also, if digital turnstiles enable the club to harvest the data, then full points allocation should only be given after a fan has purchased and attended the game.


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[AWAYDAY]

But that's the thing right, it's NOT cheating the system, and at best gaming an imperfect system with the most relevant solution for each person (I.e buy ticket then attend/not attend).

This has been going on for longer than just Barnet/B'muff this season with anyone with deep enough pockets to buy and then go/not go to away games.

There's no appropriate way of the club resolving this without it being a PR disaster for one demographic or another within the supporter base.

For what it's worth I speak as someone who did buy a ticket for Barnet and not go due to work commitments on the day and as a result benefitted because the points tipped me into the second bracket for Arsenal (I got a ticket) and West Ham (also got a ticket).

The clamour for action has come from a very vocal minority of keyboard warriors who if they had used their online capabilities for good rather than bad could have sourced tickets from those no longer going.

Sadly said online clamour is indicative of the modern age and results typically in changes for all to the benefit of very few and detriment of the majority.

Suck it up, move on is my advice.

This with Bells on.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I would guess a clearer statement of the problem would be a good start, the threads covered a multitude of issues and 'concerns(gripes)' and i am unsure what the real scale of the problem is.

Is the club trying to stop abuse of the loyalty system or more generally trying to correct loyalty system's flaws (yes abuse is one of them but appears to be identified as a separate item) or both if the latter as said a clear statement of the problems is needed.

Regards the Bournemouth game what is the REAL issue ? Club saying it sold 1200 tickets and only 650 turn up so embarrassing? Or that 550 fans or so have ten points more than some people but didn't travel so didn't earn them. Regards point one the club regularly reports crowd figures higher than actual attendance. Regards the second bit , the club did not make it clear you had to travel to the game it is only implied by the purchase. So you cannot retrospectively deal with that, you could state going forward that points are based on actual attendance. You must be able to track which tickets were scanned, I worked in computing for 35 years this is just bread and butter stuff. Now assuming you track who attends , i buy a ticket for £30 and get 10 points but then don't arrive is it a black and white no you loose your points or is someone going to arbitrate (at a cost) on each case to say that excuse is valid or not? You start opening up a minefield and someone will always feel aggrieved. What do we do about season ticket holders who regularly miss home games and denying people a chance to see a game?

I could go on but won't. I bought a ticket and attended. I have got tickets for the away games that I am able to attend and am not in the first tier of fans

It might be useful if the club held a forum at the Amex where the points could be more easily debated.....

It's your second point that is being discussed. Over 500 people bought a ticket and didn't use it. As the game was a sell out, and the Dorset police gave the exact numbers who went through the turnstile, the club have asked Bournemouth for the data.
The tickets had a bar code, so they will know who the 652 ticket holders were.

There is a clause in the terms and conditions already stating the purchase and attendance, so it can be dealt with retrospectively. It may be those who didn't bother will have their 10 points deducted.
There are fans who have tried to get tickets for this game, and haven't been able to. These are not jcls but regular attenders.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do you really think getting a few lots of 10 points for home matches as a non-STH will enhance the chances of getting an away ticket ?

I have no problem with those who pay the club the most money getting the tickets, but just sad feeling that my old regular 12 -15 away matches per season is at an end and will have to settle for a few games at the Amex.

I had to do the same in the 70s and 80s when I lived in your vicinity. Funnily enough, I didn't have much bother in the 90s when it was Huddersfield or Halifax, we were playing.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

It isn't an abuse of the system to buy a ticket and not turn up - it is simply using the system as it is designed. To say that this is an "abuse" is completely disingenuous by the club since it is their system which they designed and implemented. If it is not fit for purpose and fans have taken advantage of a "weakness", that is the club's fault and the club's problem. Blaming fans for the clubs inadequacies and sloppy thinking is very poor, and reflects badly on the organisation and culture at the club.

What did they expect....

It isn't as if something similar hasn't happened before... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_free_flights_promotion

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So you think it would have sold out if there were no points on offer?

No, it wouldn't but it would have meant those who wanted to go, could. Some fans were deprived of getting a ticket.

 

[Wozza]

the club regularly reports crowd figures higher than actual attendance.

They're obviously reporting tickets sold. Many clubs do this.

In fact, I believe it is a Premier League RULE - but not League Cup, I guess.

 

[jamie the seagull]

Give everyone who went 25 points.

Just because your name was on the ticket DOES NOT mean it was actually you that went.
That's the problem...
Club should scrap all points for the Bmuff game.
As only the elite "true" fans went then they don't need the points anyway.
Looking forward to the Club selling "we are the Bmuff 652 club" tshirts.

 

[Simontheseagull]

Seems like Paul Barber is swerving around the problem and seeking to tackle symptoms rather than causes. No mention is made of the thousands of no shows against Barnet when people bought cheap tickets just to get loyalty points.

The easiest soultion to the problem would be to award no loyalty points for Mickey Mouse Cup games between reserve teams where supply clearly will outstrip demand. Anyone who then wants to go to a reserve team match in a Mickey Mouse Cup competition can buy a cheap ticket and attend the match.

All that has happened against Barnet and Bournemouth in the Mickey Mouse Cup, is that some fans with the most loyalty points gained through loyal support in past years, bought cheap tickets just to keep their loyalty points at a level where they can deservedly go to the away glamour premier league matches. Many people complaining with fewer loyalty points have probably never previously been to an away Mickey Mouse Cup reserve team match. They are just jealous because people with the most loyalty points were able to "buy" extra loyalty points when they were unable to do so.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

. Many people complaining with fewer loyalty points have probably never previously been to an away Mickey Mouse Cup reserve team match. They are just jealous because people with the most loyalty points were able to "buy" extra loyalty points when they were unable to do so.

Nonsense. I know some of the people who were complaining, and they most certainly have been to away league cup games. Don't make assumptions.

 

[studio150]

Just because your name was on the ticket DOES NOT mean it was actually you that went.
That's the problem...
Club should scrap all points for the Bmuff game.
.

Passing on a ticket illegally who would even think of doing that.

 

[Simontheseagull]

Nonsense. I know some of the people who were complaining, and they most certainly have been to away league cup games. Don't make assumptions.

I used the word "many" in my post and not the word "all".

 

[Titanic]

I...There is a clause in the terms and conditions already stating the purchase and attendance, so it can be dealt with retrospectively. It may be those who didn't bother will have their 10 points deducted.
There are fans who have tried to get tickets for this game, and haven't been able to. These are not jcls but regular attenders.

There is also this clause in the document 2017/18 LOYALTY POINTS currently available on the club website...

http://www.seagullstickets.com/documents/pdf/1718/LoyaltyPoints.pdf

How are points being awarded?
Points are awarded when you make an advance ticket purchase – provided you have quoted your Fan Number at the point of
purchase (online, in person or via the phone). If you are making purchases for yourself and other people, please ensure that
you quote their Fan Numbers in order for them to be awarded their points.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

I feel for all the Exiles here (and I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of Exiles only membership with 5% of our allocation put aside in the first tier for Exiles to purchase) and I also feel for the club. The club need to balance driving revenue with protecting the interests of fans.

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Yes even 5% for exiles gives us hope of seeing a live game. Genuinely feel a bit gutted if I don't see a game this season after 30+ years of support. Every home game in the North stand before I moved to Liverpool, then 3-4 games a season as and when I could get to the game. Being married and having kids means I can't just disappear every other weekend. I'm not a super fan but I am a life long supporter. Even one game a season would be something, the thought of nothing especially for my ten year old lad is a bit gutting.

 

[bhanutz]

Yes even 5% for exiles gives us hope of seeing a live game. Genuinely feel a bit gutted if I don't see a game this season after 30+ years of support. Every home game in the North stand before I moved to Liverpool, then 3-4 games a season as and when I could get to the game. Being married and having kids means I can't just disappear every other weekend. I'm not a super fan but I am a life long supporter. Even one game a season would be something, the thought of nothing especially for my ten year old lad is a bit gutting.

Come to a home game?

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Maybe the only option, but it means a 9 hour round trip which seems a bit excessive with a ten year old. Stark reality is that he might become a Toffee and in some respects I wouldn't blame him.

 

[Springal]

Should be like old Englandfans days. You had to submit a boarding pass, ATM withdrawal receipt or receipt from a restaurant with corresponding transaction to prove you were in the city that day. Or even a photo of you in the stadium.