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[Albion] Losing Macalister & Caicedo



Javeaseagull

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Feb 22, 2014
2,808
Exactly, this constant narrative from the media about big/elite clubs is getting on my nerves more than ever.

Tottenham haven’t won the top division in English football since the 1960-61 season (and have only ever won it twice) and have never won the European Cup/Champions League. Since then, Nottingham Forest have won the top division and the European Cup twice, Villa have won the top division and the European Cup and Derby have won the top division twice. Even Leeds won the old first division three times since then.

What apart from money makes Tottenham and elite club?
I can’t remember the pundit (It’s my age) but he said something similar in that Tottenham aren’t a big club they just have a big stadium! I had to agree and to add to the list Birmingham have won something more recently than Spurs as well. Birmingham!
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,454
Hove
Looks to me the voice of an honourable guy.
Exactly. He was annoyed Martinelli left one on Mitoma and took retribution. In the cold light of day afterwards given the consequences, it’s not a good feeling - unless you’re preparing for your book sales…
 






Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
23,669
Brighton

Clearly Caicedo’s agents are working overtime to get him out the club.

Their best chance is obviously creating a bidding war to tempt TB. Chelsea & Arsenal are givens but is there really a third team?

Hopefully we purchase his replacement soon to take the pressure off the recruitment team.
 




nickjhs

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Apr 9, 2017
1,539
Ballarat, Australia
Exactly, this constant narrative from the media about big/elite clubs is getting on my nerves more than ever.

Tottenham haven’t won the top division in English football since the 1960-61 season (and have only ever won it twice) and have never won the European Cup/Champions League. Since then, Nottingham Forest have won the top division and the European Cup twice, Villa have won the top division and the European Cup and Derby have won the top division twice. Even Leeds won the old first division three times since then.

What apart from money makes Tottenham and elite club?
First of don't conflate big with elite, normally the phrase is top 6, which looking at the stats over their last 20 years is true, this season will be regarded as a failure by fans and pundits. So while I agree with you they are not among the greats/elites they are certainly one of the top 6 in the prem and the fan base and finances make them a big club.
 


dazzer6666

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Mar 27, 2013
55,518
Burgess Hill
First of don't conflate big with elite, normally the phrase is top 6, which looking at the stats over their last 20 years is true, this season will be regarded as a failure by fans and pundits. So while I agree with you they are not among the greats/elites they are certainly one of the top 6 in the prem and the fan base and finances make them a big club.
Can’t see it happening at the moment - no manager, no plan, no Europe and a ruined Biss as factors to consider.
 


The Fits

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
10,106
BBC reporting Tyler Adams has a relegation release clause. Defensively he would be a superb replacement for Moises. Adams and Dahoud, on paper, looks fantastic.
 




JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
6,225
Seaford
Exactly, this constant narrative from the media about big/elite clubs is getting on my nerves more than ever.

Tottenham haven’t won the top division in English football since the 1960-61 season (and have only ever won it twice) and have never won the European Cup/Champions League. Since then, Nottingham Forest have won the top division and the European Cup twice, Villa have won the top division and the European Cup and Derby have won the top division twice. Even Leeds won the old first division three times since then.

What apart from money makes Tottenham and elite club?
I supposed it's based on the fact that barring a couple of weird seasons, they always challenge for the top four. In the last 20 seasons, they've only finished outside the Top 6 5 times, have qualified for the Champions League 7 times and have got to a CL final. In that time Brighton have finished in the top 6 once, never reached the CL and have reached no major finals.

Now, I don't think that necessarily makes them "elite", but it does portray the constant hope that they can win something to players they look to sign. Combine that with a significant wage budget and it's easy to convince players to go there. Take Bissouma. Big wage increase, change to play for a big name manager and Champions League football. Other than Spurs being Spurs, they should have been a great step for him. As it stands, Spurs are in a decline rather than an ascendance.

I think Spurs are a big club in the same way that Everton, Villa and Forest are big clubs: They won stuff before I was born. Moving from Brighton to Spurs is becoming less and less a good move, but this is one season. Let's see how Spurs to with a season where all they have to focus on is domestic football.
 
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Silverhatch

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
4,681
Preston Park
AMac (integral to) an Argentine WC win, and Moises - an elite DM nowhere near his full potential. We know it’s our model but no one should diminish the fact that it’ll be incredibly difficult (impossible) to replace these two. City or Madrid or Barcelona (under Xavi) are Champions League behemoths befitting of these two
 






Lurchy

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2014
2,422
BBC reporting Tyler Adams has a relegation release clause. Defensively he would be a superb replacement for Moises. Adams and Dahoud, on paper, looks fantastic.

There’s better options available that suit our style better or / and have a higher ceiling:

Federico Redondo,
Amadou Haidara,
Maxime Lopez

Either of those 3 and I’d be happy.
 


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
Exactly, this constant narrative from the media about big/elite clubs is getting on my nerves more than ever.

Tottenham haven’t won the top division in English football since the 1960-61 season (and have only ever won it twice) and have never won the European Cup/Champions League. Since then, Nottingham Forest have won the top division and the European Cup twice, Villa have won the top division and the European Cup and Derby have won the top division twice. Even Leeds won the old first division three times since then.

What apart from money makes Tottenham and elite club?
Well, they are filling a 62k capacity stadium whilst playing shockingly dull football. That suggests a pretty decent fanbase. It’s a fantastic stadium generating big revenues which is where the money comes in. However, without the support turning up on match day there wouldn’t be the commercial opportunities that re-enforce their place in the ‘elite.’ Doesn’t that increase their probability of winning things if and when they appoint the correct management team ? That combination of money and the increased chance of winning things is what attracts players. As with much in life it is more complicated than looking for only one motivation. Everton are probably a good example of what you were saying. The reality is that are not currently a ‘big club’ as past trophy wins mean nothing on their own. They will be transformed when Bramley Dock is completed though. The likes of Leeds, Wednesday etc are though very unlikely to regain the status their fans mistakenly think they have as the game has changed.
 
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brightn'ove

cringe
Apr 12, 2011
9,169
London
Reading the translations of the interview in Paraguay with Julio Enciso, it really sounds like Alexis is a huge role model and presence for the South American players in the squad. We're going to really miss him, not just from a playing perspective. Hopefully, if we get Milner over the line, he can provide a similar level of role model to the players as a spanish speaker, although the respect that Alexis commands following the way he broke into our squad, and went on to be an important player in the world cup win, I'm not sure Milner will see the same respect.
 




Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
23,669
Brighton
BBC reporting Tyler Adams has a relegation release clause. Defensively he would be a superb replacement for Moises. Adams and Dahoud, on paper, looks fantastic.
If we could get him cheap, I agree.

Leeds Utd paid £20m for him. I know he has had injuries but you have to call his time in the Premier League a failure. I’m not sure how well he protected his defence in all those Leeds Utd loses.

If Leeds are trying to make a profit or get their money back then no. But for £10m or so. It’s a yes. We should absolutely not be paying more than we paid for Wee Billy. The club will have better options.
 


The Fits

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2020
10,106
If we could get him cheap, I agree.

Leeds Utd paid £20m for him. I know he has had injuries but you have to call his time in the Premier League a failure. I’m not sure how well he protected his defence in all those Leeds Utd loses.

If Leeds are trying to make a profit or get their money back then no. But for £10m or so. It’s a yes. We should absolutely not be paying more than we paid for Wee Billy. The club will have better options.
Believe he is in the top 1% in Europe for tackles made per 90 minutes and actually came fourth in the PL (Moises was 2nd) in terms of tackles made despite playing only 20 times.
 




Wozza

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Jul 6, 2003
24,372
Minteh Wonderland
Exactly, this constant narrative from the media about big/elite clubs is getting on my nerves more than ever.

Tottenham haven’t won the top division in English football since the 1960-61 season (and have only ever won it twice) and have never won the European Cup/Champions League. Since then, Nottingham Forest have won the top division and the European Cup twice, Villa have won the top division and the European Cup and Derby have won the top division twice. Even Leeds won the old first division three times since then.

What apart from money makes Tottenham and elite club?

Global following.


The Big Six are MILES ahead of others - and they're getting bigger.

When people talk of 'big six' media bias... when players (and our manager) talk about 'next level'.... this is the sad reality.
 








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