[Football] Liverpool and Manchester United lead ‘European League’ breakout league idea

[peterward]

It's not the meltdown that matters. I totally get that it doesn't matter to these owners what English fans think if the clubs are able to sell the rights to Asia and the US etc. But if they're also kicked out of the PL, and their Super League is the same 15 or so clubs playing each other year after year, I think the Asian fans will get bored of it soon enough, and so their revenues will fall.

It is about money, and I think they'd lose money (as long as they were kicked out of their respective leagues).

Boycotting and demonstrating against the clubs sponsors and outside JP Morgan offices wouldnt go amiss

 

[highflyer]

I think Bezos started Amazon from his own garage. He didn't copy it (like Alibaba). He thought of it, and most importantly, he took a risk and he made it happen. I think that he should get some credit for being a genuine disrupter. He saw the 4th industrial revolution coming before most people and more importantly he created a business using that foresight. I think fair play to him.

Nah.

I don't care how it started. Any more than I care how the Glazers made their initial money. I care about how it is run now. I care about how workers are treated, tax avoided and small companies crushed. There are parallels. In the Amazon scenario though it is we, the consumers, that play the part of 'global fanbase' of the greedy big six clubs. We are given what we think we want and we dont think, or perhaps don't care, about the impact elsewhere.

This is the process of financialization. Creating monopolies and oligopolies and turning things that matter to people, that provide services and jobs and pleasure for people into money making opportunities to make the rich richer.

 

[Napper]

I tell you what, that would be bloody hilarious. These 6 clubs have moaned that they're not being listened to, and not getting enough money. Respond with '**** you. We'll offer you less money than you're getting now. Take it or leave it.'

would be fantastic. They will end up with more money than before one way or another though

That's why they are silent , they don't need to say anything for now. Drop the bombshell then watch the fallout. Already without saying anything I see stances changing about revamping competitions and wanting discussions.

End result = more money

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Massively impressed by the statements and actions of Bayern...... and theyre spot on, Clubs like Madrid have gorged on excessive spending and debt to pay crazy money to players and agents to achieve dominance, then their excesses start to bite and they wont to destroy national pyramids to gorge further under the ridiculous false guise of "saving football".

Football needs an about turn, as Bayern state..... You want to save money madrid, sign up to uniform efforts to cut crazy salaries/fees..... not destroy everything trying to stretch the elastic still further.

Naked capitalist greed at its most sickening levels

Cough. Bayern are a club that have taken the bulk of their TV revenue, and won the German League 8/9 years on the spin (before the record was I believe from a radio show yesterday - 3 times). Bayern have created their own monopoly in Germany. Bayern know they don't have the global market place that Man United, Liverpool, Barca and Real Madrid have. They are not "being the good guys", they have made a business decision of what is in their own best interest.

 

[wardy wonder land]

So it can never be a European Super League.

Without Bayern and PSG and therefore the French / German markets this cannot commercially fly whatever the Americans (and make no mistake they're behind this) think.

We also have to remember the huge Francophone appeal of football - without a French interest I don't think it will work.

That's what I'm hoping anyway.

tax haven Monaco waiting in the wings..............

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Nah.

I don't care how it started. Any more than I care how the Glazers made their initial money. I care about how it is run now. I care about how workers are treated, tax avoided and small companies crushed. There are parallels. In the Amazon scenario though it is we, the consumers, that play the part of 'global fanbase' of the greedy big six clubs. We are given what we think we want and we dont think, or perhaps don't care, about the impact elsewhere.

This is the process of financialization. Creating monopolies and oligopolies and turning things that matter to people, that provide services and jobs and pleasure for people into money making opportunities to make the rich richer.

Yep agree with allot of that but, I think he still deserves a bit of credit for starting it from his garage!

 

[Triggaaar]

The 6 globetrotter clubs need to be given until May 24th ( end of season ) to reject the ESL or be chucked out of the PL.

Exactly. Although I'd change the date to the 31st May, to match the Championship playoff final.

When that final is over, we should know what clubs are in the PL next year. The breakaway clubs need to drop the ESL idea by then, or they're immediately kicked out of the PL, with the spare 6 places going to those teams that lost in the playoffs, and the 3 relegated teams.

Oh, changed your mind have you? Yeah, thought so. #tw@s

 

[Stat Brother]

Again, I'm sure this is here somewhere but just in case...


[tweet]1384176690096590871[/tweet]

 

[Triggaaar]

They will end up with more money than before one way or another though

That's why they are silent , they don't need to say anything for now. Drop the bombshell then watch the fallout. Already without saying anything I see stances changing about revamping competitions and wanting discussions.

End result = more money

I disagree with you.

I don't see an appetite for placating them. Football doesn't need them.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

It's not the meltdown that matters. I totally get that it doesn't matter to these owners what English fans think if the clubs are able to sell the rights to Asia and the US etc. But if they're also kicked out of the PL, and their Super League is the same 15 or so clubs playing each other year after year, I think the Asian fans will get bored of it soon enough, and so their revenues will fall.

It is about money, and I think they'd lose money (as long as they were kicked out of their respective leagues).

And this is the big question.
Who is going to blink first.

i think this is the last chance. If the big 6 get their way on this one, it's all over.
With the other 14 having just given way on the international TV deal, so the Big 6 got a bigger share, it's taking the piss to do this now.

Hopefully the Premier league will force the big 6 to accept they need the Premier League as much as the Premier League needs them.

 

[Altered State]

It's a difficult one for the remaining clubs however. Bottom line is that Man United's, Liverpool's and Chelsea's TV audience internationally pays for the rest of the clubs wages and debt levels. If United walked, sky pulled the plug, then most if not all of the rest (possibly us included, depending on how deep TB's pockets are) are possibly insolvent.

Good point - underlining the need for fundamental reform of football finances. I was forgetting how much the game depends on TV money (do'h).

Of course, fundamental reform could impact on us with our dependency on a deep-pocketed owner, albeit one who understands the game and supports his club/community.

 

[Triggaaar]

And this is the big question.
Who is going to blink first.

I think the answer is so obvious it's not even a question.

i think this is the last chance. If the big 6 get their way on this one, it's all over.

Exactly, if they get what they've asked for, it's all over for the rest. There's no decision to make for the likes of Brighton. Of course they can't have what they've asked for.

Simply tell the clubs they have to choose ESL or PL, and that's the end of it. Then they will have a decision to make, and they'd be mad to choose to leave.

Hopefully the Premier league will force the big 6 to accept they need the Premier League as much as the Premier League needs them.

I don't agree that they need the PL as much as the PL needs them. They need the PL much more.

 

[smeariestbat]

How long are the players going to be allowed to get away with saying ‘it has nothing to do with them’. I thibk they’ll find their ridiculous wage demands, and they have gotten ridiculous, are one of the main contributing reasons clubs need to continue to find new revenue sources.

Although, on the other hand the owners of the clubs that are doing this are the other reason the wages have gotten so high in the first place, and they can afford it. So f*ck em.

 

[METALMICKY]

UEFA now making a counter offer for a revamp f champs league involving billions of pounds

This is what it was all about. An admittedly risky strategy to have the Champions League revamped to their financial advantage.

 

[Triggaaar]

Bottom line is that Man United's, Liverpool's and Chelsea's TV audience internationally pays for the rest of the clubs wages and debt levels.

The reason that people pay to watch those clubs, is because they are successful in the PL. If they weren't in the English PL, then fans wouldn't be interested in seeing them.

If United walked, sky pulled the plug, then most if not all of the rest (possibly us included, depending on how deep TB's pockets are) are possibly insolvent.

That would suggest that every club relegated from the PL is immediately insolvent. That's not the case.

Fans around the world want to see the top English league. It doesn't matter what the names of the clubs in that league are.

 

[clapham_gull]

[tweet]1384540827922337792[/tweet]

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Good point - underlining the need for fundamental reform of football finances. I was forgetting how much the game depends on TV money (do'h).

Of course, fundamental reform could impact on us with our dependency on a deep-pocketed owner, albeit one who understands the game and supports his club/community.

The reform of football's finances is hitting the nail on the head. Where I get a bit uncomfortable is where that leads. It is fair enough for United and Liverpool to say "It's us who generate the income, so we want to keep it". So is it realistic for Brighton to play Man United? I just don't know. What I do know is that the game has changed to help the big clubs win more often. Rule changes (5 subs/no tackling), and simply the big clubs hoovering up the talent. Spain is a two club league, Germany a 1 club league, France a 1 club league. Italy pretty much is a 1 club league these days (Juve) also. The Premier League is more competitive but only because the rest dine out on United's global audience. European clubs have enviously looked on at the success of the Premier League. It's galling for say Inter Milan that they are valued less than Leicester. I don't have any solutions, but the it's important to ask the right questions before forming a view.

 

[clapham_gull]

All adds to the mix of repulsion. Sign the petition

https://www.change.org/p/all-person...n-of-the-european-super-league?redirect=false

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

The reason that people pay to watch those clubs, is because they are successful in the PL. If they weren't in the English PL, then fans wouldn't be interested in seeing them.

This is the million dollar question and the key. The owners of United and Liverpool seem to think they don't need real competition but can put on a show wearing a red shirt and that will generate safe income. Are they right? I don't know. We have however to recognise that United have an argument that it's their audience and revenue paying for the rest. That has to be faced. Where it takes us I don't know. All I want is a proper competition, with 2 subs, tackling, and if that's us playing Orient, Portsmouth and Palace but not United then I can live with that. Taking a long view, leagues have always changed and a read about the Albion in World War 1 - a good reference point with the Southern League losing the battle with the Football League.

 

[Seasider78]

This is just weird one of the founder clubs posting criticism through its own Twitter page. The manager then asking the president of the committee to explain the decision when he could just ask his boss.

https://twitter.com/mancity/status/1384506556025245699?s=21