pastafarian
Well-known member
jesus they are great tits
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Lion Hunter criticised for killing "beautiful" animal (her words)
- Thread starter BadFish
- Start date
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Is correct. And some game parks will often leave dead animals in strategic viewing positions to make things even easier.
Plastic
Ok maybe I've made it up or maybe when a live animal is in front of them they are not as composed.
sydney
tinky ****in winky
they look natural to me , and that is the only comment remaining from me apart from......shark fin soup anyone...?? now there is a ****ing travesty...!!
maltaseagull
Well-known member
Think I would much rather remain ignorant than claim some special knowledge.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Strange argument. The world's not short of cows and they are farmed for their meat and milk. They're not hunted close to extinction.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
The danger of excessive extrapolation.
Nibble
New member
- Jan 3, 2007
- 19,238
Also it's inaccurate. Contrary to popular belief, Hindu's don't hold the cow sacred and kill plenty of them.
Albumen
Don't wait for me!
Yup. I hope she's shot dead in a supermarket, dying slowly.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Just received this which is worth reading if you like that sort of thing. Interestingly, John Varty advised the Zambian government to allow a hunting concession, and now wishes that he hadn't. As with a lot of things, hunting appears to be crooked to the core:
A Letter to All Conservationists in South Africa
Sparked by the whole Melissa Bachman Debacle
by Maxine Gaines
As a conservationist myself and a trained scientist I had for years given uneasy credence to the widely held belief that without hunting, huge areas of Africa would become wasteland and cattle farms among other things.
I have always been against hunting for moral and ethical and ecological reasons but had bought into the argument, albeit reluctantly that hunting kept large tracts of land available for wildlife, which would otherwise be used for other, worse (from a conservation viewpoint) endeavors.
I have for twelve years been fortunate enough to work in the ecotourism industry as a game ranger and guide and have had the privilege of getting to know individual wild animals and follow them over many years. The territorial cats in the reserve (a private reserve in the Sabi Sands) were particularly close to my heart as I watched them grow from cubs into adults, fight their battles, make their kills, have cubs of their own. I was truly privileged and blessed to have this opportunity to gain such an intimate understanding of their ecology, behavior and conservation. All this time my unease with the blind acceptance of hunting grew and I had to ask myself some hard questions
Upon asking myself why I had, for so many years, accepted the use of large parts of our wild areas for what I considered to be an intrinsically unethical and amoral pursuit I came to the conclusion that I had done so out of fear! The fear of what would happen to that land and those animals if hunting was banned. And I had to ask myself – Is fear a good enough reason to support hunting in Africa and the answer was a resounding NO!
I would like to challenge all conservationists in Africa who have supported the hunting industry (and there are many among you whose views on most things ecological I admire greatly) to ask yourselves whether or not you have given the same uneasy support to the hunting industry for the same reason.
Now fear is never a good reason to do anything and there is a challenge here – as conservationists – if we have supported the hunting industry out of fear of the alternatives, we need to start work-shopping and brainstorming and coming up with alternative ideas for how to use that land, that benefits wildlife, in ways that hunting never will. Can we do conservation in these areas better than big game hunting has until now?
I am going to digress here for a bit and look at some of the many problems with hunting:
As Ian Michler mentioned in an article written for Africa Geographic, There are a few recent studies that have been done that conclude that the trophy hunting industry makes an insubstantial contribution to GDP, job creation and local economies in African Countries. One report compiled about two years ago by the IUCN and titled Big Game Hunting in Africa is Economically Useless concludes that “hunting does not however play a significant economic or social role and does not contribute at all to good governance. This study goes on to state that of the eight main big game hunting countries in Africa, 16,5% of the land is set aside for hunting purposes but it only contributes to 0,0001% of jobs in those countries.
How can we conserve this 16,5% of land better than hunting? Ecotourism is the obvious alternative and in that same IUCN study quoted above, it was stated that across all the investigated countries, the trophy hunting revenue was only 1.8% of tourism revenues.
So this begs the question – Have we explored all the ways in which ecotourism can operate and contribute to the economy and to conservation. I don’t think we have, and I think that as conservationists, we need to start thinking out the box here, to come up with new and innovative ideas to explore ecotourism.
And are there any viable alternatives other than ecotourism?
The next problem with the hunting industry is the corruption and illegal shenanigans that often go hand in hand with it and the evidence is stacking up.
I draw your attention to the following damning extract again from an article in an Africa Geographic Magazine hunting blog:
South Africa’s trophy hunt industry has been at the center of rhino horn trafficking for quite some time. The first Vietnamese “pseudo-hunt” apparently took place in 2003, and in November 2009, the wildlife trade monitoring network TRAFFIC warned in its report ahead of CITES CoP15 that these bogus hunts had already been taking place on “the same game ranches repeatedly”. Meanwhile, several professional hunters were arrested more than once between 2006 and 2010 for rhino crimes:
Professional hunter Peter Thormahlen was hit with a “token fine” in 2006 for illegally hunting a rhino (on behalf of a Vietnamese client), before he was brought to court again two years later on identical charges. It is worth noting that Thormahlen’s rhino hunts have frequently taken place on Mauricedale Game Reserve.
Professional hunter Christaan van Wyk had already been twice convicted of rhino horn offenses when he was found guilty of illegally hunting a rhino (also on behalf of his Vietnamese client) in 2010.
Prior to the 2011 arrest of professional hunter and game farmer Hugo Ras for unlawful possession of scheduled veterinary drugs and an unlicensed firearm, he had thrice been fined for assault and “crimeninjuria” convictions, as well as for contravening conservation and customs laws.
Suspected syndicate mastermind Dawie Groenewald’s criminal history is remarkably extensive — including a long list of international complaints, lawsuits, and criminal allegations and convictions — and far pre-dates his 2010 rhino-related arrest. Among other things, he was terminated from his job as a police officer for involvement in an organized crime ring that was smuggling stolen cars into Zimbabwe and also has a felony conviction in the US for unlawfully importing a leopard trophy (a violation of the Lacey Act).
Let’s not forget to mention the “Boere Mafia” — an unsavory gang of safari operators, hunters, game farm and lodge owners (allegedly) masterminded by Saaiman Hunting Safaris owner, Gert Saaiman, and Sandhurst Safaris owner, George Fletcher, along with Frans van Deventer. Despite (allegedly) organizing the killing of at least 19 rhinos in national parks and on private game reserves, and facing multiple charges (including racketeering, money laundering, various counts of theft, malicious damage to property and contraventions of the various provincial Conservation Acts and the Aviation Act), they walked free in 2010, when their case was “struck from the roll”.
In August 2012, TRAFFIC published its extensive report (The South Africa – Viet Nam Rhino Horn Trade Nexus), which noted that South Africa’s “high-profile private sector individuals” consistently evade justice.
None of these individuals has yet been convicted and punished, but the outcome of these cases could be pivotal for the future of South Africa’s rhinos. If convicted, and given prison sentences commensurate with what has recently been imposed upon Asian nationals, others in the private sector may be deterred from becoming embroiled in the illegal rhino horn trade trap.
And in July 2013, an investigative report by Fiona MacLeod and Estacio Valoi revealed that South African trophy hunters are operating a rhino horn trafficking ring out of Mozambique. The kingpin is said to be “safari outfitter with a hunting concession close to Corumana dam” who pays bribes to the local police chief to have charges against his operatives dropped.
Other hunters fingered in the investigation since 2011 include a safari outfit previously caught luring lions out of the Kruger for “canned” hunts, and another outfit previously implicated in ivory smuggling in Namibia.
If past performance is any indication, it is highly unlikely that South Africa’s recently-announced “new amendments to the National Environmental Management Act” will have much effect on the situation. Why? Because South Africa almost exclusively blames “foreigners” for its rhino woes, while consistently refusing to convict and imprison its homegrown criminals who use legal trophy hunts to launder rhino horns for the illegal market.- Annamiticus
The hunting Industry can also be pulled apart as far as lion hunts go.
There are numerous stories, some with accompanying evidence and some not, but credible nevertheless, of professional hunters luring lions out of protected areas and onto hunting concessions where they can then be “legally hunted’. How are these hunters still operating and how can we sit back and accept this kind of behavior from the hunting industry?
There are stories of drugged lions being shot, stories of completely tame lions that had been hand reared and treated as pets by individuals in the canned lion industry and then given over to be shot by some unsuspecting or ethically challenged hunter.
These canned lion operations often dupe innocent (and sometimes not so innocent) tourists into paying money to get their photos taken with lion cubs. The money from this goes towards feeding the lions that are used in the hunting industry and this part is often not advertised to the tourists, along with the fact that the little lion cub that they are fondling and petting today will be the canned lion trophy on some rich hunters’ wall in seven years’ time.
I sat watching a debate on eNCA channel 403 0n DSTV on Tuesday night where the chap arguing for hunting stated that canned lion hunting was acceptable because it was better than the alternative of hunting wild lions, and while I can’t dispute that the hunting of wild lions is horrific and creates all kinds of well documented problems for lion populations in the wild I have to ask myself – Just because canned lion hunting is the lesser of two evils, does this make it acceptable. And the answer is a resounding NO! For all the reasons stated above and many more. And I challenge all conservationists reading this to ask themselves whether we just sit down and accept canned lion hunting because it is the “lesser of two evils”?
Now don’t get me wrong, I am not some naïve bunny hugger. I understand that shutting the hunting industry down in this country comes with all kinds of baggage. It is not something that can just happen overnight and everyone lives happily ever after, but again, is that a reason to then say, Oh it can’t be done, it is too difficult - or should we be challenging ourselves to look for ways of doing it and coming up with a workable plan and process.
I realize the issues related to the animals involved, especially in the canned lion industry:
As soon as their lions have no more monetary value, what is stopping these “farmers” from letting all their lions starve to death in their cages, or shooting them all in the head right then and there. This is a very real possibility and any solution needs to bear this in mind and have a plan in place to prevent this from happening. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, but again I say to the conservationist’s among you, just because it is going to be hard and there are going to be problems, is it fair to say, rather let it continue. It is easier.
I think that as conservationists we have been burying our heads in the sand on this, hoping the problem will go away, or pretending it doesn’t exist and carrying on with our own conservation projects in the belief that we are doing what we can in other areas of conservation so we can just let the “hunting issue” be swept under the carpet.
I think that the time for sweeping under the carpet is finished and I challenge all Conservationists in Africa, young and old, experienced and not so, professors and students, to start shifting their paradigms, challenging their beliefs and working together to come up with a workable and better alternative to Trophy Hunting in our beautiful country.
Yours Sincerely
Maxine Gaines
JV Response:
Hello Maxine
Thank you for your open letter and also for having the courage to expose the facts of hunting.
When I was advising the Zambian Government, I was faced with a dilemma like you describe. A large area alongside a national park could either be put across to hunting or it could be put to agriculture. The area in question was not suitable for eco tourism. It had too many tsetse fly, no infra structure and no camps.
If placed under agriculture, the habitat would have been destroyed. Under hunting, the habitat remained intact.
I voted for a hunting concession. On the area in question, a hunting outfitter was granted the concession for an annual fee. The hunters lured lions and leopards out of the park with baits and recordings. They overshot their quotas on rare species like sable.
South Africa has taken hunting to a new level of cruelty with canned lion and tiger hunting in most of the provinces of South Africa.
With Botswana and Zambia banning hunting of big cats, canned leopard hunts will shortly become the norm, joining the lion and tiger canned hunts.
I have watched the Melissa Bachman debate with interest. It reminds me of a TV programme I saw which interviewed serial killers. The serial killers admitted that one of the things they craved most, was fame and recognition. Once they were arrested and could tell their stories, they had the ability to shock the world. They became instant household names across the globe.
It's the same with Melissa Bachman. Every picture that is posted, every article written, every piece of hate mail she gets, increases her notoriety. For Melissa Bachman, it's clever marketing and good self promotion to fuel her giant ego.
There is a good chance that she took a canned tiger, but cannot show the picture because it's illegal.
Where I stay in the province of the Free State, is the centre of canned lion and tiger hunting in South Africa.
Therefore to all conservationists I say, deal with what you can affect. Help Maxine run down what is possible, don't be sidetracked by Melissa Bachman.
We want to know what has happened in the Thormahlen case. Is Mauricedale Ranch still operating hunts? What has happened in Christiaan van Wyk's case? What is the latest in Hugo Ras and Dawie Groenewald's court case? Is corruption rife? Are officials being bribed to get them off court appearances. Is there clever lawyering? Marnus Steyl is another who's case has gone quiet. Investigate Gert Saaiman, George Fletcher and Frans van Deventer.
Help Maxine probe these cases. We as South African citizens have a right to know.
Send Maxine's letter to the Minister of Justice and senior prosecutors. Send it to senior members in the opposition parties. Keep probing, there is plenty of dirt. Keep feeding the media with facts and figures. Don't let these cases die! Make the Government aware that these cases are being watched and we want answers!
Chumlong Lemtongthai, the Vietnamese rhino horn trader has been given a 40 year jail sentence, we want more heavy sentences!!
Please get off the fence and help Maxine and good luck to you all.
Tread lightly of the Earth
JV
A Letter to All Conservationists in South Africa
Sparked by the whole Melissa Bachman Debacle
by Maxine Gaines
As a conservationist myself and a trained scientist I had for years given uneasy credence to the widely held belief that without hunting, huge areas of Africa would become wasteland and cattle farms among other things.
I have always been against hunting for moral and ethical and ecological reasons but had bought into the argument, albeit reluctantly that hunting kept large tracts of land available for wildlife, which would otherwise be used for other, worse (from a conservation viewpoint) endeavors.
I have for twelve years been fortunate enough to work in the ecotourism industry as a game ranger and guide and have had the privilege of getting to know individual wild animals and follow them over many years. The territorial cats in the reserve (a private reserve in the Sabi Sands) were particularly close to my heart as I watched them grow from cubs into adults, fight their battles, make their kills, have cubs of their own. I was truly privileged and blessed to have this opportunity to gain such an intimate understanding of their ecology, behavior and conservation. All this time my unease with the blind acceptance of hunting grew and I had to ask myself some hard questions
Upon asking myself why I had, for so many years, accepted the use of large parts of our wild areas for what I considered to be an intrinsically unethical and amoral pursuit I came to the conclusion that I had done so out of fear! The fear of what would happen to that land and those animals if hunting was banned. And I had to ask myself – Is fear a good enough reason to support hunting in Africa and the answer was a resounding NO!
I would like to challenge all conservationists in Africa who have supported the hunting industry (and there are many among you whose views on most things ecological I admire greatly) to ask yourselves whether or not you have given the same uneasy support to the hunting industry for the same reason.
Now fear is never a good reason to do anything and there is a challenge here – as conservationists – if we have supported the hunting industry out of fear of the alternatives, we need to start work-shopping and brainstorming and coming up with alternative ideas for how to use that land, that benefits wildlife, in ways that hunting never will. Can we do conservation in these areas better than big game hunting has until now?
I am going to digress here for a bit and look at some of the many problems with hunting:
As Ian Michler mentioned in an article written for Africa Geographic, There are a few recent studies that have been done that conclude that the trophy hunting industry makes an insubstantial contribution to GDP, job creation and local economies in African Countries. One report compiled about two years ago by the IUCN and titled Big Game Hunting in Africa is Economically Useless concludes that “hunting does not however play a significant economic or social role and does not contribute at all to good governance. This study goes on to state that of the eight main big game hunting countries in Africa, 16,5% of the land is set aside for hunting purposes but it only contributes to 0,0001% of jobs in those countries.
How can we conserve this 16,5% of land better than hunting? Ecotourism is the obvious alternative and in that same IUCN study quoted above, it was stated that across all the investigated countries, the trophy hunting revenue was only 1.8% of tourism revenues.
So this begs the question – Have we explored all the ways in which ecotourism can operate and contribute to the economy and to conservation. I don’t think we have, and I think that as conservationists, we need to start thinking out the box here, to come up with new and innovative ideas to explore ecotourism.
And are there any viable alternatives other than ecotourism?
The next problem with the hunting industry is the corruption and illegal shenanigans that often go hand in hand with it and the evidence is stacking up.
I draw your attention to the following damning extract again from an article in an Africa Geographic Magazine hunting blog:
South Africa’s trophy hunt industry has been at the center of rhino horn trafficking for quite some time. The first Vietnamese “pseudo-hunt” apparently took place in 2003, and in November 2009, the wildlife trade monitoring network TRAFFIC warned in its report ahead of CITES CoP15 that these bogus hunts had already been taking place on “the same game ranches repeatedly”. Meanwhile, several professional hunters were arrested more than once between 2006 and 2010 for rhino crimes:
Professional hunter Peter Thormahlen was hit with a “token fine” in 2006 for illegally hunting a rhino (on behalf of a Vietnamese client), before he was brought to court again two years later on identical charges. It is worth noting that Thormahlen’s rhino hunts have frequently taken place on Mauricedale Game Reserve.
Professional hunter Christaan van Wyk had already been twice convicted of rhino horn offenses when he was found guilty of illegally hunting a rhino (also on behalf of his Vietnamese client) in 2010.
Prior to the 2011 arrest of professional hunter and game farmer Hugo Ras for unlawful possession of scheduled veterinary drugs and an unlicensed firearm, he had thrice been fined for assault and “crimeninjuria” convictions, as well as for contravening conservation and customs laws.
Suspected syndicate mastermind Dawie Groenewald’s criminal history is remarkably extensive — including a long list of international complaints, lawsuits, and criminal allegations and convictions — and far pre-dates his 2010 rhino-related arrest. Among other things, he was terminated from his job as a police officer for involvement in an organized crime ring that was smuggling stolen cars into Zimbabwe and also has a felony conviction in the US for unlawfully importing a leopard trophy (a violation of the Lacey Act).
Let’s not forget to mention the “Boere Mafia” — an unsavory gang of safari operators, hunters, game farm and lodge owners (allegedly) masterminded by Saaiman Hunting Safaris owner, Gert Saaiman, and Sandhurst Safaris owner, George Fletcher, along with Frans van Deventer. Despite (allegedly) organizing the killing of at least 19 rhinos in national parks and on private game reserves, and facing multiple charges (including racketeering, money laundering, various counts of theft, malicious damage to property and contraventions of the various provincial Conservation Acts and the Aviation Act), they walked free in 2010, when their case was “struck from the roll”.
In August 2012, TRAFFIC published its extensive report (The South Africa – Viet Nam Rhino Horn Trade Nexus), which noted that South Africa’s “high-profile private sector individuals” consistently evade justice.
None of these individuals has yet been convicted and punished, but the outcome of these cases could be pivotal for the future of South Africa’s rhinos. If convicted, and given prison sentences commensurate with what has recently been imposed upon Asian nationals, others in the private sector may be deterred from becoming embroiled in the illegal rhino horn trade trap.
And in July 2013, an investigative report by Fiona MacLeod and Estacio Valoi revealed that South African trophy hunters are operating a rhino horn trafficking ring out of Mozambique. The kingpin is said to be “safari outfitter with a hunting concession close to Corumana dam” who pays bribes to the local police chief to have charges against his operatives dropped.
Other hunters fingered in the investigation since 2011 include a safari outfit previously caught luring lions out of the Kruger for “canned” hunts, and another outfit previously implicated in ivory smuggling in Namibia.
If past performance is any indication, it is highly unlikely that South Africa’s recently-announced “new amendments to the National Environmental Management Act” will have much effect on the situation. Why? Because South Africa almost exclusively blames “foreigners” for its rhino woes, while consistently refusing to convict and imprison its homegrown criminals who use legal trophy hunts to launder rhino horns for the illegal market.- Annamiticus
The hunting Industry can also be pulled apart as far as lion hunts go.
There are numerous stories, some with accompanying evidence and some not, but credible nevertheless, of professional hunters luring lions out of protected areas and onto hunting concessions where they can then be “legally hunted’. How are these hunters still operating and how can we sit back and accept this kind of behavior from the hunting industry?
There are stories of drugged lions being shot, stories of completely tame lions that had been hand reared and treated as pets by individuals in the canned lion industry and then given over to be shot by some unsuspecting or ethically challenged hunter.
These canned lion operations often dupe innocent (and sometimes not so innocent) tourists into paying money to get their photos taken with lion cubs. The money from this goes towards feeding the lions that are used in the hunting industry and this part is often not advertised to the tourists, along with the fact that the little lion cub that they are fondling and petting today will be the canned lion trophy on some rich hunters’ wall in seven years’ time.
I sat watching a debate on eNCA channel 403 0n DSTV on Tuesday night where the chap arguing for hunting stated that canned lion hunting was acceptable because it was better than the alternative of hunting wild lions, and while I can’t dispute that the hunting of wild lions is horrific and creates all kinds of well documented problems for lion populations in the wild I have to ask myself – Just because canned lion hunting is the lesser of two evils, does this make it acceptable. And the answer is a resounding NO! For all the reasons stated above and many more. And I challenge all conservationists reading this to ask themselves whether we just sit down and accept canned lion hunting because it is the “lesser of two evils”?
Now don’t get me wrong, I am not some naïve bunny hugger. I understand that shutting the hunting industry down in this country comes with all kinds of baggage. It is not something that can just happen overnight and everyone lives happily ever after, but again, is that a reason to then say, Oh it can’t be done, it is too difficult - or should we be challenging ourselves to look for ways of doing it and coming up with a workable plan and process.
I realize the issues related to the animals involved, especially in the canned lion industry:
As soon as their lions have no more monetary value, what is stopping these “farmers” from letting all their lions starve to death in their cages, or shooting them all in the head right then and there. This is a very real possibility and any solution needs to bear this in mind and have a plan in place to prevent this from happening. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, but again I say to the conservationist’s among you, just because it is going to be hard and there are going to be problems, is it fair to say, rather let it continue. It is easier.
I think that as conservationists we have been burying our heads in the sand on this, hoping the problem will go away, or pretending it doesn’t exist and carrying on with our own conservation projects in the belief that we are doing what we can in other areas of conservation so we can just let the “hunting issue” be swept under the carpet.
I think that the time for sweeping under the carpet is finished and I challenge all Conservationists in Africa, young and old, experienced and not so, professors and students, to start shifting their paradigms, challenging their beliefs and working together to come up with a workable and better alternative to Trophy Hunting in our beautiful country.
Yours Sincerely
Maxine Gaines
JV Response:
Hello Maxine
Thank you for your open letter and also for having the courage to expose the facts of hunting.
When I was advising the Zambian Government, I was faced with a dilemma like you describe. A large area alongside a national park could either be put across to hunting or it could be put to agriculture. The area in question was not suitable for eco tourism. It had too many tsetse fly, no infra structure and no camps.
If placed under agriculture, the habitat would have been destroyed. Under hunting, the habitat remained intact.
I voted for a hunting concession. On the area in question, a hunting outfitter was granted the concession for an annual fee. The hunters lured lions and leopards out of the park with baits and recordings. They overshot their quotas on rare species like sable.
South Africa has taken hunting to a new level of cruelty with canned lion and tiger hunting in most of the provinces of South Africa.
With Botswana and Zambia banning hunting of big cats, canned leopard hunts will shortly become the norm, joining the lion and tiger canned hunts.
I have watched the Melissa Bachman debate with interest. It reminds me of a TV programme I saw which interviewed serial killers. The serial killers admitted that one of the things they craved most, was fame and recognition. Once they were arrested and could tell their stories, they had the ability to shock the world. They became instant household names across the globe.
It's the same with Melissa Bachman. Every picture that is posted, every article written, every piece of hate mail she gets, increases her notoriety. For Melissa Bachman, it's clever marketing and good self promotion to fuel her giant ego.
There is a good chance that she took a canned tiger, but cannot show the picture because it's illegal.
Where I stay in the province of the Free State, is the centre of canned lion and tiger hunting in South Africa.
Therefore to all conservationists I say, deal with what you can affect. Help Maxine run down what is possible, don't be sidetracked by Melissa Bachman.
We want to know what has happened in the Thormahlen case. Is Mauricedale Ranch still operating hunts? What has happened in Christiaan van Wyk's case? What is the latest in Hugo Ras and Dawie Groenewald's court case? Is corruption rife? Are officials being bribed to get them off court appearances. Is there clever lawyering? Marnus Steyl is another who's case has gone quiet. Investigate Gert Saaiman, George Fletcher and Frans van Deventer.
Help Maxine probe these cases. We as South African citizens have a right to know.
Send Maxine's letter to the Minister of Justice and senior prosecutors. Send it to senior members in the opposition parties. Keep probing, there is plenty of dirt. Keep feeding the media with facts and figures. Don't let these cases die! Make the Government aware that these cases are being watched and we want answers!
Chumlong Lemtongthai, the Vietnamese rhino horn trader has been given a 40 year jail sentence, we want more heavy sentences!!
Please get off the fence and help Maxine and good luck to you all.
Tread lightly of the Earth
JV
The Large One
Who's Next?
The afore-mentioned Melissa Bachman. I'm not asking anyone to draw any conclusions from these images, or anything...
Seagull kimchi
New member
That's just not true my friend - Nandi is the vehicle of Lord Shiva, which makes the cow very sacred. They are certainly not killed for meat but maybe out of humane reasons.
sydney
tinky ****in winky
she's a ****.....with nice tits.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
You learn something new everyday. I read that and thought, 'There aren't any tigers in Africa' but having Googled it, there are pockets of South China tigers being taught to hunt and survive in South Africa.
I can understand the economy of hunting but surely the 'hunters' can make money out of safaris armed with nothing worse than a good camera?
What on earth is she holding, there? Some kind of quick-fire heavy-duty crossbow? She makes me very sad, this woman. Very angry, and very sad.
The Large One
Who's Next?
If she was really that hard, I'd like to see her have a go at giving a barehanded bunch of fives to a bear or a lion. If she can put one down during a good old-fashioned tear-up (no scarfers, no kids), then fair play. Until then...
Fignon's Ponytail
Well-known member
It may not be the same bear, but on YouTube there is a video of her TV show where she goes up to Alaska and kills a black bear with a bow. Quite unbelievable how much pleasure you see her having - and then you see her rolling around on the ground laughing & hugging this dead animal with a big smile on her face. The bear had been duped by her & her partner into stepping out from the trees while feeding (think they mimicked the call of an injured animal that is hunted by the bears), and she sent a bolt straight through it....
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Yup, John Varty is one who is trying to conserve Tigers in SA as an experiment. But no, they are not indigenous! His website is here http://www.jvbigcats.co.za if you are interested. He and his brother started Londolozi Game Reserve, where Mrs KZN and I went on our honeymoon - LOADS of Leopards.
This is where the problem lies with hunting - yes, there is money to be made from tourists with cameras, but if someone comes along offering them 50,000 dollars or more to shoot a lion, then they do not say no - especially to someone with big tits. That is what Varty is saying about Zambia - they overshot their quotas, no doubt because they were offered big money to do so. But Rhino poaching here is dreadfully bad at the moment, and you can bet that most of it is organised by SA "hunters".