[News] Liam neeson

[dingodan]

The John Barnes take on it guarantees this thread will hit 100 pages.

https://news.sky.com/story/john-barnes-liam-neeson-deserves-a-medal-for-race-admission-11628709

I don't agree with Barnes that everyone is unconsciously racist, but I do agree that all Liam Neeson did was be honest about something really unflattering.

& it wasn't even really about race, although naturally everyone has made it about race. It was about revenge, and revenge against innocent people by association.

That is not something most people would like to admit to, and it's something which most people do feel at times, despite not wanting admit it.

 

[Klaas]

they
You said he was going to attack an innocent black man. He never said that. He was going out hoping a black man would provoke something and he would then respond in other words, they may well have been innocent of the rape but they wouldn't have been innocent of starting a fight for example. You've picked out the bits you wanted to hear to suit your agenda.

So it's all the hypothetical black man's fault for starting the fight that led to him being killed. Right. I haven't picked out any bits, he's very clear in what he said. I actually admire his honesty, however I do think his bringing it up in an interview for a movie is inappropriate, self absorbed and a bit dumb. It's the can't say anything these days types my comments are aimed at.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I know,

Let’s surgically analyse this to see if we can decide whether Neeson is racist or not.

Fact is, I have no idea and neither does anyone else on here. What he said was stupid, but because of the reaction it would generate rather than his personal views on race.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[drew]

So it's all the hypothetical black man's fault for starting the fight that led to him being killed. Right. I haven't picked out any bits, he's very clear in what he said. I actually admire his honesty, however I do think his bringing it up in an interview for a movie is inappropriate, self absorbed and a bit dumb. It's the can't say anything these days types my comments are aimed at.

Do you honestly think the sum total of his conversation with his friend was a) do you know him? and b) was he black.

Nobody is suggesting that the hypothetical black man deserves to die because he started a fight. The point being made was that he didn't go looking for the first black man he saw but that there would have had to be a catalyst to trigger his revenge. Nobody is saying what he was thinking was right but you have to take it in context of the fact it happened 40 years ago and in an environment where vengeful acts were probably commonplace.

I do agree with you final sentiments, ie it wasn't the right platform to bring it up and that some people will overreact and view it based on todays society rather than one 40 years ago.

 

[The Clamp]

I’m just glad he didn’t run into any grumpy chimney sweeps.

“Cop that ya wee fecker and keep yer hands ta yaself”!

 

[Baldseagull]

In support of John Barnes' view, it is biologically driven in us to mistrust those which look, sound, or smell less like us and trust more those that we are similar to, or at least those that are similar to those we were raised closely with up to the age of 7 or so. I have racist reactions in my mind sometimes, as well as ageist, sexist, snobbish, etc. I try and not let them show and reason them away, but they still pop up, it's human nature. I think ageism is the one I struggle most to dismiss, and scouse accents.
If someone introduces themselves as Mohammed I am slower to warm to them, or warier, than if they had said their name was Mo, silly shit like that.

 

[The Clamp]

In support of John Barnes' view, it is biologically driven in us to mistrust those which look, sound, or smell less like us and trust more those that we are similar to, or at least those that are similar to those we were raised closely with up to the age of 7 or so. I have racist reactions in my mind sometimes, as well as ageist, sexist, snobbish, etc. I try and not let them show and reason them away, but they still pop up, it's human nature. I think ageism is the one I struggle most to dismiss, and scouse accents.
If someone introduces themselves as Mohammed I am slower to warm to them, or warier, than if they had said their name was Mo, silly shit like that.

In other news: Some people have evolved.

I can hand on heart with all honesty say if someone introduced themselves as Mohammed from Iran or Steve from Kirby or Jacque from Calais , or Mohammed from Calais , Steve from Iran or Jacquie from Dorking, that I would not bat an eyelid . People is people.

Disclaimer: I may now retreat slightly if introduced to “Liam from Belfast”.

TC

 

[Baldseagull]

In other news: Some people have evolved.

I can hand on heart with all honesty say if someone introduced themselves as Mohammed from Iran or Steve from Kirby or Jacque from Calais , or Mohammed from Calais , Steve from Iran or Jacquie from Dorking, that I would not bat an eyelid . People is people.

Disclaimer: I may now retreat slightly if introduced to “Liam from Belfast”.

TC

I am not really uncomfortable with anyone who calls themselves Mohammed, just that Mo would make me more comfortable. I notice this small difference and recognise it as a failing in me, I am not justifying it, I am acknowledging it.
I resent the implication that you are a more evolved human than me, is that some sort of ism, you have for people that can admit their faults?

 

[The Clamp]

I am not really uncomfortable with anyone who calls themselves Mohammed, just that Mo would make me more comfortable. I notice this small difference and recognise it as a failing in me, I am not justifying it, I am acknowledging it.
I resent the implication that you are a more evolved human than me, is that some sort of ism, you have for people that can admit their faults?

Sorry. I should clarify. I’m not saying I’m more evolved than you. I’m saying most people are more evolved than you. “Mohammed” really makes you uncomfortable? Really? I feel sorry for you.

My name is Christian, should I say “Chris” around Muslims? Just to make them feel more comfortable?

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I don't agree with Barnes that everyone is unconsciously racist...

I do agree. He did say 'unconsciously' which was very insightful. Bear with me here, and stop thinking like a cultured and rational 21st Century human being for a moment.

In the grand scheme of things it's a spit and a cough since we were cavemen. Hundreds of thousands of years of honed instincts kept us alive as a species. We did bloody well at it, too... Why do we go on holiday and always sit in the same table at the same restaurant? Why do we go back to that beach we like and know? Why do we walk down the same route to the 'Supermercado'? Why do we do anything repeatedly, the same as we always have? Why do we like that familiarity? I'll tell you why... Because it's safe. Our monkey brains tell us that if we did it once, and survive, chances are we can do the same thing again - and survive. Familiarity = Safety.

From 'things' to 'other humans' - one of those protection mechanisms was to stay away from people and tribes who weren't 'like us'. You weren't sure if you could trust them, you knew nothing about them, except they were 'different'. They acted differently and they looked different, and may very likely pose a threat. They were unknown, so natural instinct was to avoid them.

As we're not that much more evolved in our basic instincts even today, the subconscious looks at people who look or act very differently to us with some suspicion. We can't help it. It's part of our subconscious - hence the very thoughtful quote from John Barnes. Black people can be suspicious of white people, Pakistanis of Indians, Chinese of Japanese, you name it. We can't help it.

In the modern world, we can quite correctly question it and act in a way which overrides this most basic of human instincts - but it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[Jackthelad]

In other news: Some people have evolved.

I can hand on heart with all honesty say if someone introduced themselves as Mohammed from Iran or Steve from Kirby or Jacque from Calais , or Mohammed from Calais , Steve from Iran or Jacquie from Dorking, that I would not bat an eyelid . People is people.

Disclaimer: I may now retreat slightly if introduced to “Liam from Belfast”.

TC

If think if you had a daughter or a wife killed or brutally raped by Muslims you would feel some anger at Muslims/Islam or suspicious. I'm not saying you would go out and look for "street justice" but I think you would mistrust them or at best feel slightly uncomfortable when you passed a Muslim in the street. People can get over that anger but I think for a lot of people there would be anger even if that anger never manifested itself only by negative thoughts.

 

[Paris]

I haven't read through this whole thread but people need to remember Liam Neeson has starred in a film called Dark Man.

I'll get my coat...

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I think you would mistrust them or at best feel slightly uncomfortable when you passed a Muslim in the street..

How would you know who the muslims are?

 

[Jackthelad]

How would you know who the muslims are?

Muslim women often wear Hijab's and Muslims are often found near Mosques, not really that hard tbh lol.

 

[Baldseagull]

Sorry. I should clarify. I’m not saying I’m more evolved than you. I’m saying most people are more evolved than you. “Mohammed” really makes you uncomfortable? Really? I feel sorry for you.

My name is Christian, should I say “Chris” around Muslims? Just to make them feel more comfortable?

No, it doesn't make me uncomfortable, but Mo makes me more comfortable, and there is no sane reason for it. Have you never met some one and felt they were particularly warm and friendly? It does not mean that you find all others cold and standoffish. Dig down in there and somewhere you will find a small prejudice, everybody has them, but maybe just the more evolved can recognise them.

 

[GT49er]

Er... most of us would ask what he looked like, not what colour. In the real world.

Yours, A knobhead.

I think in the real world if the victim was describing her attacker to the police she would naturally include the fact that he was black - it's a major component of his physical appearance.

And no, I don't agree with what Neeson did.

 

[portlock seagull]

In this country, we are taught that only White people (preferably english, male, middle-age, middle-class and with a penchant pour jambon!) can be racist. This group especially must be extremely careful and sensitive to what may be misconstrued - because whether they are or not, the court of public opinion will always find in favour of the accuser if the defendant is of this group. Its just the narrative we've been taught. Neeson has been extremely naive and will pay disproportionately for his openness/honesty.

 

[LlcoolJ]

In this country, we are taught that only White people (preferably english, male, middle-age, middle-class and with a penchant pour jambon!) can be racist. This group especially must be extremely careful and sensitive to what may be misconstrued - because whether they are or not, the court of public opinion will always find in favour of the accuser if the defendant is of this group. Its just the narrative we've been taught. Neeson has been extremely naive and will pay disproportionately for his openness/honesty.

That's true. And it's not at all correct that that group of pork faced people are the only racists.

I've been on the end of racist abuse from a group of Asian lads while walking home from the pub on my own many years ago. Thought I was going to get a proper kicking until the rest of the lads realised that it was the ringleader who was actually the racist, not me.

But that's not the point. The VAST majority of racists in this country are white. And they are those fat, bald, pink faced "lads" and the people who agree with them. A stereotype isn't just a stereotype when it's true.

Everyone should be careful what they say if what they really want to say if f'ng offensive. And then we get the "freedom of speech" straw man again.

Does my nut in.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Oh and this Liam Neesom stuff is a load of cock. In his position, he's technically made a massive PR error, but I doubt it makes a difference to him at his age and with his cash.

What he's said is that he was a massive dickhead when he was younger and reacted to a situation in a totally inappropriate manner. And that he knows he did. And that he realised what a dick he was being AT THE TIME and had a word with himself.

40 years ago.

I'm interested, has anyone before or more importantly since ever called him out as being racist in any way shape or form?

FFS

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If think if you had a daughter or a wife killed or brutally raped by Muslims you would feel some anger at Muslims/Islam or suspicious. I'm not saying you would go out and look for "street justice" but I think you would mistrust them or at best feel slightly uncomfortable when you passed a Muslim in the street. People can get over that anger but I think for a lot of people there would be anger even if that anger never manifested itself only by negative thoughts.

Why would you feel anger towards others with a similar skin colour, religion, hair colour, whatever though? It doesn’t make any logical sense whatsoever as all these masses of others didn’t commit the crime. Makes you look stupid.