Lewes Road Traffic Plan

[Vegas Seagull]

Why has no'one noted that this was 'largely funded by a government grant' & therefore whoever signed this off centrally is to blame for not realising the overall benefits wouldn't be as overestimated by the originator...maybe it was the 'West Coast Train guys' on a job swap project?

 

[Easy 10]

The Greens have won. They've beaten me. I no longer set wheel in Brighton town centre, its become impossible (not to mention cripplingly expensive).

All shopping trips are now conducted in Worthing or Crawley. Brighton is a total write-off.

 

[element]

The Greens have won. They've beaten me. I no longer set wheel in Brighton town centre, its become impossible (not to mention cripplingly expensive).

All shopping trips are now conducted in Worthing or Crawley. Brighton is a total write-off.

There are still mugs that do it WTF! On a Saturday afternoon, the queue for the West Street car parks starts at the A23/A27 roundabout at Patcham, with a slow crawl past Withdean, Preston Park, The Level, The Brighton Pier, then along the front and turn right for West Street! WHO in their right mind does that week after week Like you say, give it the swerve and go elsewhere

 

[Seasidesage]

TLO instead of assuming that your view is the facts, while everyone else is opinion is conjecture, how about actually looking at what is proposed. the fact is non of us knows including the traffic engineers. This is my guess, wrong certainly but no more or less likely to be right than yours or anyone elses really. A estimated 1% reduction in traffic,(Council estimate) even if we assume you are right and it is say nearer 10% you are going to transfer 90% of the existing vehicle traffic, less say the bus traffic what 10% max. down from 2 lanes into one. How is that realistically going to improve anyone's experience even the cyclists? At rush hour you are going to have tailbacks with traffic trying to join from side roads, (you already do) people looking for rat runs, backing up over junctions such as the Vogue and the bottom of Coombe Rd which already happens, and which is going to force traffic onto the estate roads as it did when Coldean Lane was undergoing improvements and whenever road works have been carried out on this part of Lewes Road.

This area is already dying on it's arse and the shops are going to go the same way as London Road did after it's 'improvements' 20 years ago. They clearly have to do something, anyone who uses this road would agree with that, the Vogue is a disaster and dangerous with it for both Pedestrians and Cyclists, in fact all road users, but this will make it worse IMO as all we are doing is increasing the areas with congestion while ignoring the real problem, the Vogue.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

"Under the plan, half the width of the current dual carriageway, between the Vogue Gyratory and the A27, would be used for bus and bike lanes, leaving one lane in each direction for cars and other traffic."

"The council predicts that major infrastructure work on the road could convince just 1% of motorists – or 12 drivers during that rush-hour period – to switch to buses."

Seems like an awesome idea... but carry on destroying the city.

I suspect the bike train will still cycle slowly up the one remaining car designated lane.

He was referring to your first post that implies this is the Greens doing - the whole process was started by the Tories. That said the Greens did the final rubber stamping so they're far from blameless !

 

[The Large One]

"Under the plan, half the width of the current dual carriageway, between the Vogue Gyratory and the A27, would be used for bus and bike lanes, leaving one lane in each direction for cars and other traffic."

"The council predicts that major infrastructure work on the road could convince just 1% of motorists – or 12 drivers during that rush-hour period – to switch to buses."

Seems like an awesome idea... but carry on destroying the city.

I suspect the bike train will still cycle slowly up the one remaining car designated lane.

You know when you read a theatre review, and the reviewer absolutely slates the show, using a phrase like '... the only thing that had me rolling in the aisles was when the curtain came down early...', but then the show's poster then uses the phrase '... had me rolling in the aisles...' to promote the show...? That's what the Argus is doing here, taking a portion of the report, mis-representing it and turning it into something it isn't, promoting its anti-Green agenda.

The original report doesn't state that at all. The Argus might well have reported that, but as I have said three times now, it is highly selective, and mostly mis-leading.

Let me put it another way. With the figures they've chosen to leave out, it's a bit like saying that only goals scored in the North goal at the Amex should count.

However, back to your original point, you were moaning about the Old Shoreham Road having cycle lanes put in, and whining at the Greens about it; the Greens who, at the time, had 13 councillors. However, as has been stated one here ad nauseum, it was the Conservative-led council, asking people in a mostly Conservative-voting wards about their opinions on the cycle path (and reaching a majority consensus) undertaking work as obliged by laws set out by a Conservative-led coalition government. Do you see a pattern emerging here?

 

[Easy 10]

There are still mugs that do it WTF! On a Saturday afternoon, the queue for the West Street car parks starts at the A23/A27 roundabout at Patcham, with a slow crawl past Withdean, Preston Park, The Level, The Brighton Pier, then along the front and turn right for West Street! WHO in their right mind does that week after week Like you say, give it the swerve and go elsewhere

The crawl along the seafront from Portslade is almost as bad. You're lucky if you start queuing at Palmeira.

 

[The Large One]

He was referring to your first post that implies this is the Greens doing - the whole process was started by the Tories. That said the Greens did the final rubber stamping so they're far from blameless !

Actually, the Tories rubber-stamped it too.

However, it was with the full support of the Greens and Labour as well.

 

[Winker]

The problem is that the council are not offering any alternatives to motorists, if people are coming in from areas where there is little public transport what are they supposed to do, other than join the gridlock?

This scheme should not go ahead without a park and ride option, but lets face it, that would be too sensible and intelligent for a green council to comprehend. It is far simpler and cheaper to simply block up a road and hope the traffic disappears. Just wait until King George VI avenue is blocked to through traffic, then the whole city will die on its feet.

 

[element]

I posted on the earlier thread about these initiatives being anti-car, and someone said they were more pro-cycle/bus etc., but the bottom line is they are at the expense of private vehicular traffic flow. I know the wordsmiths on here can spin for England, but at least admit this is the case

 

[The Large One]

TLO instead of assuming that your view is the facts, while everyone else is opinion is conjecture, how about actually looking at what is proposed. the fact is non of us knows including the traffic engineers. This is my guess, wrong certainly but no more or less likely to be right than yours or anyone elses really. A estimated 1% reduction in traffic,(Council estimate) even if we assume you are right and it is say nearer 10% you are going to transfer 90% of the existing vehicle traffic, less say the bus traffic what 10% max. down from 2 lanes into one. How is that realistically going to improve anyone's experience even the cyclists? At rush hour you are going to have tailbacks with traffic trying to join from side roads, (you already do) people looking for rat runs, backing up over junctions such as the Vogue and the bottom of Coombe Rd which already happens, and which is going to force traffic onto the estate roads as it did when Coldean Lane was undergoing improvements and whenever road works have been carried out on this part of Lewes Road.

This area is already dying on it's arse and the shops are going to go the same way as London Road did after it's 'improvements' 20 years ago. They clearly have to do something, anyone who uses this road would agree with that, the Vogue is a disaster and dangerous with it for both Pedestrians and Cyclists, in fact all road users, but this will make it worse IMO as all we are doing is increasing the areas with congestion while ignoring the real problem, the Vogue.

Notwithstanding your unnecessary sarcasm, my points are also conjecture, and can't and won't present them as facts. But I'm not dismissing this plan just because people on here have an anti-Green agenda. In fact, politically it's irrelevant who came up with this scheme, seeing as they all agree with it.

As regarding the scheme, I can see that it could work. Point is, there isn't one magic wand answer to Lewes Road. In fact, to me, there isn't one Lewes Road we're talking about. We're talking about the Lewes Road from Elm Grove to Gyratory, from Gyratory to Coombe Road, and Coombe Road to Coldean Lane. I'd suggest they each have their own issues.

If you're talking about Lewes Road between Elm Grove and Gyratory, that area appears to have fewer empty shops than from when I lived there (12 years ago). However, double parking, parking on the pavement and parking across cycle lanes is a problem - to me, it's the biggest problem, and it makes the area seem ugly. This scheme appears to attempt to tackle that. Will it work? It's already single lane there, so...

The Gyratory itself is something the council has acknowledged it will continue to look at closely. I don't think they feel they've nailed it totally. However, if they put the whole scheme off because one part isn't totally secured, that's the funding for all parts up the swanee, and nothing will get done for years. The Gyratory may yet get re-visited.

Taking the cycle lane - having a safer cycle lane will promote cycling. I'm sure there's more to it than anecdotal evidence, but many people say they are put off cycling because it's too bloody dangerous. This leads to a further point of why should cycling be considered dangerous? I'm not on about the looneys who jump red lights - they're idiots. I'm talking about people who want a cheaper, quicker way to get into and out of town. It was put to me, and I'm struggling to come up with an answer to counter it, that cycling is the quickest way to get from the City Centre to Amex; you can't get there quicker. Far more so than OSR, a cycle lane will be well used along Lewes Road.

Next, the bus lanes. There are dozens of buses every hour, and they carry hundreds of people - more, it seems, than cars do. It's not the quantity of buses that's the issue (though it's not unimportant), it's their stop-start nature, interfering with other road users that affects flow. Therefore, a large chunk of stop-start traffic will be allowed to move more freely because buses by-and-large, buses won't get in the way of car flow.

Also, I was told - though I'm not sure how it works; again something to do with stop-start - that 30mph will make traffic flow run smoother. There's a weird, bizarre head-f***ing science to traffic flow. I can kind of see that one, but would need to see it in action to really see it.

I appreciate, and the report states this too, that car journey times will be longer. However, the report, the one the Argus is hanging its hat on, also states that previous experience has shown that other alternative routes for when people see Lewes Road is already too busy will cope, and that there will be a reduction of 20% in traffic volume. How they've worked that out, I can't tell, mind.

What I would not do is dismiss all of this out of hand and insist that the status quo is the most viable option. It's similar to schemes already in place in the city, and results, according to officers, apparently have been encouraging.

So my take on this scheme is... imperfect? Probably. Stupid? No.

 

[Garage_Doors]

How many more f***ing times do you need telling?

Jesus Christ.

Just once, so we can hear why your in favour of a scheme that will increase pollution.

Edited as just read the responce above.

How are the council going to combat the increased pollution of the stop start nose to tail traffic?

 

[Seasidesage]

Notwithstanding your unnecessary sarcasm, my points are also conjecture, and can't and won't present them as facts. But I'm not dismissing this plan just because people on here have an anti-Green agenda. In fact, politically it's irrelevant who came up with this scheme, seeing as they all agree with it.

As regarding the scheme, I can see that it could work. Point is, there isn't one magic wand answer to Lewes Road. In fact, to me, there isn't one Lewes Road we're talking about. We're talking about the Lewes Road from Elm Grove to Gyratory, from Gyratory to Coombe Road, and Coombe Road to Coldean Lane. I'd suggest they each have their own issues.

If you're talking about Lewes Road between Elm Grove and Gyratory, that area appears to have fewer empty shops than from when I lived there (12 years ago). However, double parking, parking on the pavement and parking across cycle lanes is a problem - to me, it's the biggest problem, and it makes the area seem ugly. This scheme appears to attempt to tackle that. Will it work? It's already single lane there, so...

The Gyratory itself is something the council has acknowledged it will continue to look at closely. I don't think they feel they've nailed it totally. However, if they put the whole scheme off because one part isn't totally secured, that's the funding for all parts up the swanee, and nothing will get done for years. The Gyratory may yet get re-visited.

Taking the cycle lane - having a safer cycle lane will promote cycling. I'm sure there's more to it than anecdotal evidence, but many people say they are put off cycling because it's too bloody dangerous. This leads to a further point of why should cycling be considered dangerous? I'm not on about the looneys who jump red lights - they're idiots. I'm talking about people who want a cheaper, quicker way to get into and out of town. It was put to me, and I'm struggling to come up with an answer to counter it, that cycling is the quickest way to get from the City Centre to Amex; you can't get there quicker. Far more so than OSR, a cycle lane will be well used along Lewes Road.

Next, the bus lanes. There are dozens of buses every hour, and they carry hundreds of people - more, it seems, than cars do. It's not the quantity of buses that's the issue (though it's not unimportant), it's their stop-start nature, interfering with other road users that affects flow. Therefore, a large chunk of stop-start traffic will be allowed to move more freely because buses by-and-large, buses won't get in the way of car flow.

Also, I was told - though I'm not sure how it works; again something to do with stop-start - that 30mph will make traffic flow run smoother. There's a weird, bizarre head-f***ing science to traffic flow. I can kind of see that one, but would need to see it in action to really see it.

I appreciate, and the report states this too, that car journey times will be longer. However, the report, the one the Argus is hanging its hat on, also states that previous experience has shown that other alternative routes for when people see Lewes Road is already too busy will cope, and that there will be a reduction of 20% in traffic volume. How they've worked that out, I can't tell, mind.

What I would not do is dismiss all of this out of hand and insist that the status quo is the most viable option. It's similar to schemes already in place in the city, and results, according to officers, apparently have been encouraging.

So my take on this scheme is... imperfect? Probably. Stupid? No.

TLO a very reasonable response. (No it's not sarcasm). I struggle to see how any improvement can be gained without sorting out the central block to the whole road. The Vogue, they are fiddling around the edges and I think it will cause more problems both locally and on Ditchling Rise and in Woodingdean as people look for alternatives.

Imperfect? Yes and I think we will find pretty much unworkable in reality...

 

[Albumen]

"Under the plan, half the width of the current dual carriageway, between the Vogue Gyratory and the A27, would be used for bus and bike lanes, leaving one lane in each direction for cars and other traffic."

"The council predicts that major infrastructure work on the road could convince just 1% of motorists – or 12 drivers during that rush-hour period – to switch to buses."

Seems like an awesome idea... but carry on destroying the city.

I suspect the bike train will still cycle slowly up the one remaining car designated lane.

Strange thing to say!

 

[The Large One]

TLO a very reasonable response. (No it's not sarcasm). I struggle to see how any improvement can be gained without sorting out the central block to the whole road. The Vogue, they are fiddling around the edges and I think it will cause more problems both locally and on Ditchling Rise and in Woodingdean as people look for alternatives.

Imperfect? Yes and I think we will find pretty much unworkable in reality...

I think the problem with the Vogue is mostly northbound.

The models the officers have used is the A259, and its huge shifting modal patterns. In fact, the figures they use are very conservative in relation to other similar schemes across the country. This only has a hope of working if there were options along the same route - and there are; walking, cycling, buses and trains. It's just about the most catered for route in the city - and that includes the A23.

I've no idea of its success, but I can see this being much better than 'unworkable'.

 

[Wally Gould]

The 'Greens' are a disaster for the city. Making the Lewes Road one lane will cause chaos during peak times, even worse than it is now. Drivers will just take alternative routes to avoid the area bringing problems to other areas. I can think of better uses for the money than waste it on this project. Use it for improving hospitals / schools / the homeless / the elderly.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Being a 180 degree city doesn't help. Traffic streaming in and traffic streaming out. I'm puzzled as to why there has never really been a huge push towards car share. A massive percentage of traffic is just a single occupant.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Every time a thread like this pops up I always conclude how happy I am, that I never have to enter the city apart from the Amex. Successive councils have made a visit to the city so difficult that I'm surprised any businesses needing visitors (tourism etc) are still trading.

This.

We have family in Brighton, but now very, very rarely go into the centre to spend our money.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The Greens have won. They've beaten me. I no longer set wheel in Brighton town centre, its become impossible (not to mention cripplingly expensive).

All shopping trips are now conducted in Worthing or Crawley. Brighton is a total write-off.

And this.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

For a City that needs to encourage tourists and visitors, the Council (past and present) have failed its residents.The City needs a massive Park and Ride at the bottom of the A23

For visitors from the East, why can't The Amex be used on non match days?