[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......

[Bozza]

Why is it that the likes of you and @Kinky Gerbil hold the Labour Party to a higher standard than the Tories?

"Starmer’s government was set up claiming to hold itself to higher standards than its predecessors."

Furore over Labour cronies ‘no worse than Tories’ in government, allies say

Political veterans say Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves installing trusted allies in Whitehall roles par for the course

www.theguardian.com

 

[LamieRobertson]

So, you've long had issues with the current Tory leader, and you now have an issue that he is being replaced? Tough crowd.

Besides, I thought Sunak did a reasonable job in PMQ yesterday. Publishing the impact statement on the effect of the removal of the Winter Fuel Payment would be a positive step in reassuring those who are concerned about this.

Of course, having spent years ridiculing Sunak for not actually answering his questions, Starmer then spent the whole of PMQ doing exactly the same thing.

I find it amusing that those who have spent the last so many years criticising the previous party in government (and rightly so at times) can’t quite grasp that now their favoured party is in power the spotlight is now on them to do the business ….and do it well…and when they aren’t (like now) criticism is going to come there way

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Why is it that the likes of you and @Kinky Gerbil hold the Labour Party to a higher standard than the Tories?

I don't.

The Tories were a complete s**t show. Dreadful and deserved to be booted out.

I am hoping for far, far better from the LP, that's all.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Why is it that the likes of you and @Kinky Gerbil hold the Labour Party to a higher standard than the Tories?

Are we now at the point where we are being judged for holding them to the higher standards Labour said they would bring in?

It's telling one of the only defences of the recent decisions is "they are not the Tories"





I voted Labour BTW

 

[LamieRobertson]

I don't.

The Tories were a complete s**t show. Dreadful and deserved to be booted out.

I am hoping for far, far better from the LP, that's all.

Are you seriously saying you want better for yourself and the country heaven forbid,

 

[Bozza]

I find it amusing that those who have spent the last so many years criticising the previous party in government (and rightly so at times) can’t quite grasp that now their favoured party is in power the spotlight is now on them to do the business ….and do it well…and when they aren’t (like now) criticism is going to come there way

Well, quite.

We don't need to be told about the shambolic self-serving administrations that preceded Labour's landslide win at the last General Election.

We deserve better, we need better and Starmer has assured us that is what we will get.

I understand that PMQ is largely performative, but if you've spent years ridiculing the question-dodging, it's not a great look when you immediately do the same thing, particularly if you do actually answer the question, you have the opportunity to quash concerns that many people have about your policy implementation.

 

[Guinness Boy]

So, you've long had issues with the current Tory leader, and you now have an issue that he is being replaced? Tough crowd.

Besides, I thought Sunak did a reasonable job in PMQ yesterday. Publishing the impact statement on the effect of the removal of the Winter Fuel Payment would be a positive step in reassuring those who are concerned about this.

Of course, having spent years ridiculing Sunak for not actually answering his questions, Starmer then spent the whole of PMQ doing exactly the same thing.

I have an issue that they've had five different leaders since (and probably because of) the disastrous own goal of Brexit. Which is exactly why Labour have so much shit to shovel. Eight weeks simply isn't long enough for that. There are probably still 8 week old lettuces in fridges somewhere.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I have an issue that they've had five different leaders since (and probably because of) the disastrous own goal of Brexit. Which is exactly why Labour have so much shit to shovel. Eight weeks simply isn't long enough for that. There are probably still 8 week old lettuces in fridges somewhere.

Dam that majority that voted for Brexit hideous people

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I have an issue that they've had five different leaders since (and probably because of) the disastrous own goal of Brexit. Which is exactly why Labour have so much shit to shovel. Eight weeks simply isn't long enough for that. There are probably still 8 week old lettuces in fridges somewhere.

Yes, Brexit has long divided (and still does the Tory Party)

On your second point, IMHO, if COVID hadn't happened Johnson would still have been their leader - certainly going into an election.

His dreadful handling of the pandamic being the reason for his downfall

No Covid, No Truss , no Sunak?

 

[Chicken Run]

Why is it that the likes of you and @Kinky Gerbil hold the Labour Party to a higher standard than the Tories?

Well we wouldn’t want to go down the route of “ They’re all the same” would we

 

[Chicken Run]

I find it amusing that those who have spent the last so many years criticising the previous party in government (and rightly so at times) can’t quite grasp that now their favoured party is in power the spotlight is now on them to do the business ….and do it well…and when they aren’t (like now) criticism is going to come there way

What and you didn’t expect those who criticised the previous government not to be able accept similar behaviour It’s going to be a long five years which i suspect will see less and less political posts on NSC

 

[Machiavelli]

"Starmer’s government was set up claiming to hold itself to higher standards than its predecessors."

Furore over Labour cronies ‘no worse than Tories’ in government, allies say

Political veterans say Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves installing trusted allies in Whitehall roles par for the course

www.theguardian.com

I think you'll find all new governments do that kind of thing, and would offer that's not the most revealing answer to the question posed.
I do get the point made by @LamieRobertson that once in office, the spotlight intensifies. I'd also add that the media tends to be more exacting of Labour than the Tories. And can also share my own criticisms of two months of a Starmer government if required, but that might take things in a different direction.
I'm more interested in my original question. I know you've got skin in the game on the culling of the WFA, but would gently suggest that you've been more active on the politics threads over the past month or so than previously -- you might counter that I've been less active, which is fair.

 

[Machiavelli]

Well, quite.

We don't need to be told about the shambolic self-serving administrations that preceded Labour's landslide win at the last General Election.

We deserve better, we need better and Starmer has assured us that is what we will get.

I understand that PMQ is largely performative, but if you've spent years ridiculing the question-dodging, it's not a great look when you immediately do the same thing, particularly if you do actually answer the question, you have the opportunity to quash concerns that many people have about your policy implementation.

And on this one, might it not be better if PMQs was ditched, or the rules tightened such that it ceases to be a pantomime?

 

[Chicken Run]

And on this one, might it not be better if PMQs was ditched, or the rules tightened such that it ceases to be a pantomime?

What so now the “Forensic skilled Barrister “ is in the hot seat and you think it might be a good time to ditch PMQ’s

 

[Machiavelli]

What so now the “Forensic skilled Barrister “ is in the hot seat and you think it might be a good time to ditch PMQ’s

You carry on. If I was skilled enough, I'd dig out posts where I've previously said that PMQs is a waste of time. Just so you and others can understand, I'm a member of a different party to the Labour Party and am very interested in the principle of holding PMs, governments and, within that, MPs to account. Given your response, it's up to you to explain why it is that you think PMQs is good at holding PMs to account.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Dam that majority that voted for Brexit hideous people

That majority didn't know what they were voting for and were hideously lied to. Example? If we were sending £350 million a week in addition to the NHS I doubt we'd need to cut WFP for anyone.

 

[LamieRobertson]

That majority didn't know what they were voting for and were hideously lied to. Example? If we were sending £350 million a week in addition to the NHS I doubt we'd need to cut WFP for anyone.

Bit like voting for Labour this time then

 

[Bozza]

I have an issue that they've had five different leaders since (and probably because of) the disastrous own goal of Brexit. Which is exactly why Labour have so much shit to shovel. Eight weeks simply isn't long enough for that. There are probably still 8 week old lettuces in fridges somewhere.

Agree on all counts.

But you expressed concern that the Tories were going through a leadership contest currently.

The alternative to holding a leadership contest now is to not hold one and allow Sunak to continue. Regardless of what you think of his competencies, I'm really not sure his heart would be in it. I suspect he wants to exit stage west and head for California ASAP.

And given the summer recess and, now, the break for conference season, there won't have been the chance for much oppositioning to have been done by the time the next leader is in place.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Agree on all counts.

But you expressed concern that the Tories were going through a leadership contest currently.

The alternative to holding a leadership contest now is to not hold one and allow Sunak to continue. Regardless of what you think of his competencies, I'm really not sure his heart would be in it. I suspect he wants to exit stage west and head for California ASAP.

And given the summer recess and, now, the break for conference season, there won't have been the chance for much oppositioning to have been done by the time the next leader is in place.

My intended point was to emphasise how many they'd had and why it made them an ineffective opposition full stop. You're completely right about Sunak of course but I'm not sure Jenrick or Badenoch are going to give them what they need. A lurch to the right where they'll be in direct competition with Reform. If Badenoch wins it'll be like Labour under Corbyn, only with an uber rude version who only opens her mouth to change feet and is, frankly, the wrong colour for many of their target audience.

There's a lot of 'aren't Labour awful' on this thread but the fact is there is zero credible alternative. Greens simply not popular enough. LDs with a decent enough manifesto but you can't put it through while abseiling at Centre Parcs. And then Tory / Reform chaos. That should worry everyone on NSC.

 

[Flounce]

How predictable, Starmer now blaming the Tories for every single hiccup in the road he meets

I thought he had ALL the answers, well he did whilst in opposition

Happy to give him time to turn it all around but stop with the blame culture, just get on with the job and live with the brickbats, they come with the job.

FWIW I am basically behind the withdrawal of winter fuel payments for all but the most vulnerable