[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn

[jcdenton08]

As someone who is desperate to vote for a centrist Labour Party, this is fantastic news.

I don't hate Corbyn, I just can't vote for him based on some of his beliefs. Still, at least he HAS beliefs and does what he thinks is
is right, damn popular support. Not unlike Thatcher.

This is a fantastic opportunity to clear out the "new left" and start again trying to build an electable shadow government without the Corbynist shadow's influence behind the scenes.

 

[jcdenton08]

Starmer can now clear out the left left and become the new Blair.

I'm not sure if this is facetious but it is what I and I'm sure many others actually want.

 

[jcdenton08]

We still do have a decent Liberal Party but it was hung out to dry 9 years ago for the tuition fees fiasco. A life sentence for a relatively minor first offence, whilst the Tories get away with murder on a daily basis.

I voted for Clegg almost solely based on the promises he repeatedly made about tuition fees.

I had decided to go to university as a mature student, and it was these promises and his election which confirmed my decision to study, with all the consequences that has subsequently brought financially for what is likely to be a huge portion of my life now and in the future.

Whilst this "relatively minor first offence" may not have affected you personally, it has affected me personally and on a more immediate basis than any political decision made in my lifetime to date. It has directly cost me upwards of 10's of thousands of pounds. One decision, based on a minor first offence, which will prove life altering financially.

Additionally, lots of people who voted Lib in that election were the youth vote. I.e people who are more likely to go into higher education and be directly affected by the broken promise whichever got them into government.

If I was voting for the first time and my first ever vote cost me £30k, I don't think I'd be jumping at the chance to vote for them again.

Finally, just because something is relatively minor to you, it can be absolutely enormous to a whole demographic that didn't occur to you. in this case, it happened to the core demographic of Lib support. An entire generation of people who will now never consider voting Lib again.

 

[Gwylan]

One thing I don't know (and haven't seen discussed yet) is why Corbyn made his statement and refused to retract it.

Is it because a) he's a bit dim b) he's a genuine anti-semite and saw no reason to apologise or c) he wanted to be suspended/expelled to create dissent within the Labour Party ... maybe even to form another party.

I have no idea which is true (although I'm pretty sure b isn't) but it's created a right stir.

The other equally important question is a) this good for Starmer as he's shown to be a good leader or b) bad for Labour as it's hopelessly divided and voters don't like divided parties

Again, I don't know ... although I suspect a

 

[Guinness Boy]

All I am saying is the Sh!t will stick.

Ok, so fine to refer to the Tories as the Muslim Haters and Brexit Party as the Foreigner Haters then?

 

[Hampster Gull]

[SUP][/SUP]Good, we can do without his extremism, now for Boris and his merry bands of extremists

 

[jcdenton08]

One thing I don't know (and haven't seen discussed yet) is why Corbyn made his statement and refused to retract it.

Is it because a) he's a bit dim b) he's a genuine anti-semite and saw no reason to apologise or c) he wanted to be suspended/expelled to create dissent within the Labour Party ... maybe even to form another party.

I have no idea which is true (although I'm pretty sure b isn't) but it's created a right stir.

The other equally important question is a) this good for Starmer as he's shown to be a good leader or b) bad for Labour as it's hopelessly divided and voters don't like divided parties

Again, I don't know ... although I suspect a

I think it's D, he truly believes what he is saying is true.

I wouldn't have voted for Corbyn based on other issues, but I respected the man and his relative honesty in relation to other politicians. I think he's a man of his word - I just don't like the word.

Much like refusing to wear a tie, he is stubborn. He's not going to retract anything, because he sticks by what he said. And I don't think for a second he's an anti-Semite either.

The problem is, on hot button issues you simply can't be a contrarian to popular opinion. He naturally is and always has been. If he just said "I accept the findings and agree we need to do better" this wouldn't have happened. But he would never do that because he truly feels the claims are "over-exaggerated".

Of course, whether he's right or wrong, politically it was a suicidal move.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Ok, so fine to refer to the Tories as the Muslim Haters and Brexit Party as the Foreigner Haters then?

So are still on team Corbyn then?

 

[Is it PotG?]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I’m not interested in derailing the thread, that particular honour goes to Lower West Stander. I will however challenge the absolute nonsense that comes out of people’s mouths, figuratively speaking of course.

Soon after the Deal bombings he was seen meeting with Adams. Now I was out of the Navy by then but one of my mates was a bandy but fortunately wasn’t at Deal at the time. You can image how happy he was to see old jezza and his side kick chumming it up with Adams.
It is often forgotten that in times of war RM Bandsmen are unarmed and carry the wounded (of both sides) from the field of battle ...

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[BrickTamland]

The ironic thing about Brexit is that, ultimately, time will prove that half of the people were wrong and the other half of the people were right. I believe that Brexit will be a complete disaster for this country and that - ultimately - when the dust settles the one UK mainstream party that said all along we should Remain may not even exist because of the kicking the electorate have given it over the last 9 years.

The electorate have turned English politics into a two-party system and - as the Americans are finding - that doesn't make for collaborative politics, it only leads to polarised political positions and divided people. I believe strong Lib Dem party was a good thing for British politics, but it has all but gone now, and look what has happened to British politics since their demise in 2011. You get a choice of Corbyn vs May, then Corbyn vs Johnson and it is no surprise the country ends up divided and f*cked.

Nail on head

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

For all the issues I have with corbyn I don’t believe he is a anti-Semitic. However his failure to address the vocal minority who were was inexcusable.


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[Gwylan]

So are still on team Corbyn then?

It's not unreasonable to suggest the Tories are the Muslim haters. There's currently an inquiry under way investigating Islamophobia in the party and the EHRC has said that they will monitor it to ensure that it's rigorous and independent. There's certainly a chance that some time next year, we could be looking at an EHRC report on the Conservatives.


There are more than 300 complaints against Conservative members, you don't have to be Team Corbyn to think that's a bit dodgy

 

[Deleted member 2719]

It's not unreasonable to suggest the Tories are the Muslim haters. There's currently an inquiry under way investigating Islamophobia in the party and the EHRC has said that they will monitor it to ensure that it's rigorous and independent. There's certainly a chance that some time next year, we could be looking at an EHRC report on the Conservatives.


There are more than 300 complaints against Conservative members, you don't have to be Team Corbyn to think that's a bit dodgy

Okay, that maybe the case.

So do you still support Corbyn?

 

[Weststander]

As someone who is desperate to vote for a centrist Labour Party, this is fantastic news.

I don't hate Corbyn, I just can't vote for him based on some of his beliefs. Still, at least he HAS beliefs and does what he thinks is
is right, damn popular support. Not unlike Thatcher.

This is a fantastic opportunity to clear out the "new left" and start again trying to build an electable shadow government without the Corbynist shadow's influence behind the scenes.

A similar view here. I first voted Labour in 1997 for several reasons to do with my personal beliefs on certain issues and because the Labour Party had become genuinely pragmatic and centrist economically.

A rocky road ahead as the large numbers of hard left who were drawn to the party in recent years might not take this lying down. I expect social media and fake news (thankfully I don’t do twatter or facebook) will now feature smear campaigns against Starmer and co for years to come. Will they try and deselect the likes of Peter Kyle?

I view a strong LP under Starmer in 2024 an attractive possibility, without wishing my life away

 

[GT49er]

The ironic thing about Brexit is that, ultimately, time will prove that half of the people were wrong and the other half of the people were right. I believe that Brexit will be a complete disaster for this country and that - ultimately - when the dust settles the one UK mainstream party that said all along we should Remain may not even exist because of the kicking the electorate have given it over the last 9 years.

....or to put that in simple terms, they backed the wrong horse. They may well now wither and die as a valid political party; such is life, such definitely is politics. It's a tough old game!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I voted for Clegg almost solely based on the promises he repeatedly made about tuition fees.

I had decided to go to university as a mature student, and it was these promises and his election which confirmed my decision to study, with all the consequences that has subsequently brought financially for what is likely to be a huge portion of my life now and in the future.

Whilst this "relatively minor first offence" may not have affected you personally, it has affected me personally and on a more immediate basis than any political decision made in my lifetime to date. It has directly cost me upwards of 10's of thousands of pounds. One decision, based on a minor first offence, which will prove life altering financially.

Additionally, lots of people who voted Lib in that election were the youth vote. I.e people who are more likely to go into higher education and be directly affected by the broken promise whichever got them into government.

If I was voting for the first time and my first ever vote cost me £30k, I don't think I'd be jumping at the chance to vote for them again.

Finally, just because something is relatively minor to you, it can be absolutely enormous to a whole demographic that didn't occur to you. in this case, it happened to the core demographic of Lib support. An entire generation of people who will now never consider voting Lib again.

You talk as if the Lib Dems had a parliamentary majority when in fact they were the minor party in the coalition, with a Tory party who couldn't wait to stitch them up. I am surprised they got anything done with that bunch of charlatans and rogues. if it had been a Lib - Lab coalition it may have been a different story.

 

[Pavilionaire]

....or to put that in simple terms, they backed the wrong horse. They may well now wither and die as a valid political party; such is life, such definitely is politics. It's a tough old game!

Let's see where the Conservative party is in 4 years time when their chickens will come home to roost.

 

[The Clamp]

The accusations were exaggerated.

 

[Gwylan]

Okay, that maybe the case.

So do you still support Corbyn?

Who said I did? I haven't voted Labour at GE for many years.

As I said earlier, my personal view is that a lot of the stuff said about Corbyn was exaggerated. I certainly don't think he's an anti-semite, nor do I see him as hard-left - the Labour party manifesto was perfectly mainstream European social democracy BUT I do agree with Harry Wilson Tackle's assessment that he certainly hung around with some dodgy people and he was a weak leader who allowed claims of anti-semitism to fester.

And I think his response to the report is poor. A responsible leader would have taken it on board and said something like "It's good that the report found that the Labour Party isn't institutionally anti-semitic because I don't believe it us but it does highlight some severe shortcomings, mainly under my leadership. It's clearly not acceptable for the party to break the law and I regret that I didn't act quickly enough to deal some anti-semitic elements within the party.

"I'm pleased that the report does state that there are improvements in the process and some of the changes that I instituted are having an effect. There is no place in the Labour Party for racism of any sort and I welcome this report's role in highlighting where we failed."