[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Isn't the University of Buckingham massively untrustworthy and specializing in courses like "Nutrition". Or have I made that up?

You may well have made it up, but it is certainly true.

If you are so thick that it would be criminal to train as a U Buck medic, you can be a U Buck nutritionist.

"Hello, can you advise me on my nutrition"

"Yes, yes I can"

"well what should I eat?"

"Cereal for breakfast, a light lunch, and in the evening a massive meat and two veg.
That will be £120 guineas - see my secretary. We take American Express."

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Actually they are a democratic socialist party and their rule book states they will effectively harness the free market rather than take it over.

It's nice to see Ben Garfield schooled. Again.

As he might put it, it doesn't matter if Labour is socialist or not. No government has any influence over the economy or society. Tax and employment are irrelevant.

But whenever did he say that? Soon, I would imagine. Soon.

 

[Triggaaar]

Do you mean your parents go wholly private (which is their right - funds permitting) or do you mean the consultants will go wholly private? If the latter then the NHS should stop training them. They are not elite footballers. They are supposed to be trained to work as public servants. Like me (university academic). Any consultancy I do is in my own time.

That's not workable. If someone trains with the NHS, you can't then stop them leaving their job in the future. Hell, we have RAF pilots working for China - that's more of a concern.

And while it's not nice that people have to wait 2 years, or pay and have it done in 6 weeks, the fact that some will pay does help lighten the load for the NHS, making the service cheaper to run. Surely the solution in to better fund the NHS, rather than trying and impossible ban on the staff ever leaving?

 

[Guinness Boy]

You may well have made it up, but it is certainly true.

If you are so thick that it would be criminal to train as a U Buck medic, you can be a U Buck nutritionist.

"Hello, can you advise me on my nutrition"

"Yes, yes I can"

"well what should I eat?"

"Cereal for breakfast, a light lunch, and in the evening a massive meat and two veg.
That will be £120 guineas - see my secretary. We take American Express."

I have vague memories of Mrs GB looking at doing a degree in something health related and Buckingham wanting a mere 5 grand or something so they could tell her how to tell other people what to eat.

Like a NOTW undercover sheik we politely declined.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That's not workable. If someone trains with the NHS, you can't then stop them leaving their job in the future. Hell, we have RAF pilots working for China - that's more of a concern.

And while it's not nice that people have to wait 2 years, or pay and have it done in 6 weeks, the fact that some will pay does help lighten the load for the NHS, making the service cheaper to run. Surely the solution in to better fund the NHS, rather than trying and impossible ban on the staff ever leaving?

Indeed. But I think I addressed these issue later on in my ramblings, or in the follow-up post

It is all a bit of an evolving hypothesis (in my mind). Not sure where I will end up (albeit I am not the Labour Party chief policy wonk, so my ideas are irrelevant).

But some discussion to deal with the shit show might be useful. I would imagine.

 

[borat]

Any chance that someone ignoring the regularly expressed experience & fears of racism & abuse of the overwhelming majority of UK Jews is the problem? Especially when copy & pasting the same bullshit 'figures' that every cultist goon uses.
Do you casually ignore every other community's lived experience of racism or is it just Jews that don't count for you?

Haha. Calling the NEC official figures bullshit as they dont support your narrative. You also ignored what Starmer is doing currently to left wing jews.

You argument is a complete strawman. You do realise that relentless smears perpetuated by the media and commentators understandably made some Jewish people fearful. Please learn the difference between perception and actuality.

Disgusting that AS was used as a political football and thus harms genuine incidents

History will not look kindly on those that perpetuated it.

 

[drew]

When you have read my whole post you will see that I mean that if the taxpayer trains them they should (for a while at least) be contracted to be employed solely by the taxpayer. We don't train fire and police service people and let them moonlight as part time policemen/women and part time private security guards etc. If a police employee wishes to resign and become a private consultant, so be it. Nobody is complaining the police service is understaffed because as soon as they become qualified the graduates become private security people! And medics are paid far more than the police.

In medicine we allow consultants (and more junior doctors) to use their NHS status to underpin their cachet as private doctors. It is a racket.

Let the people who want to be rich private doctors pay their own way via private universities for their training. The University of Buckingham, for example.

Oh, hang on....."Buckingham Medical School is a not-for-profit educational charity, meaning that students cannot receive government loans and must therefore self-finance the £37,500 annual tuition fee."

Over £180 grand for a five year medical training...the only people doing this will be kids whose school grades wouldn't get them into a UK university. And rich parents, of course. Fancy being treated by one of their graduates? Me neither.

Point of order, a large proportion of firemen do have second jobs.

Private consultancy is the trade off for keeping them involved in the NHS. What needs to change is the balance. However, when you have a party that has allowed the NHS to fall into a state of disrepair, that was never going to happen over the last 12 years.

 

[drew]

Extreme either way is bad of course. But how do you know that a left government. Is even worse?

We don't, because there has never been a far left government. Guessing there's a reason for that.

 

[Weststander]

Haha. Calling the NEC official figures bullshit as they dont support your narrative. You also ignored what Starmer is doing currently to left wing jews.

You argument is a complete strawman. You do realise that relentless smears perpetuated by the media and commentators understandably made some Jewish people fearful. Please learn the difference between perception and actuality.

Disgusting that AS was used as a political football and thus harms genuine incidents

History will not look kindly on those that perpetuated it.

Well, Jews in the Labour Party say they now feel safe again.

 

[aolstudios]

Well, Jews in the Labour Party say they now feel safe again.

Funny that

 

[BadFish]

We don't, because there has never been a far left government. Guessing there's a reason for that.

That was my point, it's Tory or Tory lite all the way for you guys. When was the last government that could be considered left.

Interesting that so many responses to this discussion shift from left to extreme left or far left. Surely there is no appetite for far or extreme parties either way?

 

[BenGarfield]

It's nice to see Ben Garfield schooled. Again.

As he might put it, it doesn't matter if Labour is socialist or not. No government has any influence over the economy or society. Tax and employment are irrelevant.

But whenever did he say that? Soon, I would imagine. Soon.

Yes I agree, the labour party in its constitution states that it is a democratic socialist party, in theory at any rate, but they seem neither particularly democratic or socialist at the moment which should please the original poster who maintained that the British people didnt vote for socialism. I dont quite understand your point about the government not having any influence over the economy and tax and employment being irrelevant - perhaps could you elaborate? I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of the MMT position on this. Tax is very important but its role is not to fund government expenditure it has other functions in the economy. Employment policy is fundamental to the MMT by running the economy at full empolyement and controlling inflation by means of a job guarantee (taxation also plays a role in controlling inflation .

 

[drew]

That was my point, it's Tory or Tory lite all the way for you guys. When was the last government that could be considered left.

Interesting that so many responses to this discussion shift from left to extreme left or far left. Surely there is no appetite for far or extreme parties either way?

Possibly Attlee's government, nationalised the railways and electric companies and set up the NHS. But we've never had a far left government and I doubt we ever will because there is no appetite for it from the electorate. However, I do get a bit fed up with this 'tory lite' label. The far left need to realize that what people will accept is evolution, not revolution. It's all well and good shouting from the sidelines but to effect change you need to be in power which means winning elections.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes I agree, the labour party in its constitution states that it is a democratic socialist party, in theory at any rate, but they seem neither particularly democratic or socialist at the moment which should please the original poster who maintained that the British people didnt vote for socialism. I dont quite understand your point about the government not having any influence over the economy and tax and employment being irrelevant - perhaps could you elaborate? I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of the MMT position on this. Tax is very important but its role is not to fund government expenditure it has other functions in the economy. Employment policy is fundamental to the MMT by running the economy at full empolyement and controlling inflation by means of a job guarantee (taxation also plays a role in controlling inflation .

Mate, I think you may not have noticed the sound or feel of the movement of vast quantities of air at high velocity, in your general direction.

 

[BadFish]

Possibly Attlee's government, nationalised the railways and electric companies and set up the NHS. But we've never had a far left government and I doubt we ever will because there is no appetite for it from the electorate. However, I do get a bit fed up with this 'tory lite' label. The far left need to realize that what people will accept is evolution, not revolution. It's all well and good shouting from the sidelines but to effect change you need to be in power which means winning elections.

Totally agree, what interests me though is why the electorate's appetite doesn't seem to shift any further to the left than centre right. This is where labour seem to have to go to get into power. What is so terrifying about the left side of politics for the UK electorate?

 

[BenGarfield]

Mate, I think you may not have noticed the sound or feel of the movement of vast quantities of air at high velocity, in your general direction.

"Mate" whats that supposed to mean?

 

[jcdenton08]

Really, the hard left are just doing the thing they always do when they lose. “Everyone else is wrong, we are right and if we can just educate you why you’re wrong, you’ll come around to our thinking”.

Britain. Doesn’t. Vote. For. Hard. Left. Government.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Really, the hard left are just doing the thing they always do when they lose. “Everyone else is wrong, we are right and if we can just educate you why you’re wrong, you’ll come around to our thinking”.

Britain. Doesn’t. Vote. For. Hard. Left. Government.

To be honest....who are these hard lefties? I never hear from them. There are hard lefty union types, like Bob Crow, but I don't see his name on any ballot papers. I recall the SWP (do they still exist?) but I wasn't aware they had ever made a bid for power, being more interested in sponsoring banners at protests.

 

[BadFish]

To be honest....who are these hard lefties? I never hear from them. There are hard lefty union types, like Bob Crow, but I don't see his name on any ballot papers. I recall the SWP (do they still exist?) but I wasn't aware they had ever made a bid for power, being more interested in sponsoring banners at protests.

There aren't any . . . Because they don't stand a chance. .

Every time I ask why the electorate won't entertain the idea of a left leaning government I get told the electorate won't vote for a hard/extreme/etc government.

The scale appears to go right wing, moderate right, centre right, Communist. I guess this is why the woke worrier was referring to Comrade Corbyn with no sense of irony.

 

[aolstudios]

To be honest....who are these hard lefties? I never hear from them. There are hard lefty union types, like Bob Crow, but I don't see his name on any ballot papers. I recall the SWP (do they still exist?) but I wasn't aware they had ever made a bid for power, being more interested in sponsoring banners at protests.

Thousands of them joined the labour party from the swp & similar in 2015. Hence the recent shitshow. Corbyn's two closest advisors had been communists. Both of whom had expressed admiration for Stalin & Putin