[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

[SeagullinExile]

What planet are you on Live by the sea??
It's the fact that corbin, abbott and the rest of the old cronies support/won't condemn these groups.
Throw the ira into the mix and it makes corbin the most dangerous man for many generations to be considered for No.10.

?

 

[Storrington Seagull]

You forgot to throw in the nuggets about the Muslims taking over and the place being over run by immigrants - come on - don't hold back - Tommy Robinson would be disappointed.

Does it get any more clichéd from the lefties?

Anything that doesn't fit into the tree hugging, it's getting pretty hot in the world, there are over 1000 gender types, don't say that, you cant say that Agenda, and its straight to the old Tommy Robinson quote.
Go and plant a money tree for your old leader comrad, corbin the failed!!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Does it get any more clichéd from the lefties?

Anything that doesn't fit into the tree hugging, it's getting pretty hot in the world, there are over 1000 gender types, don't say that, you cant say that Agenda, and its straight to the old Tommy Robinson quote.
Go and plant a money tree for your old leader comrad, corbin the failed!!

You really are a dinosaur. No doubt in the 60s you called anyone with sympathy for the civil rights movement a 'n***** lover'.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Does it get any more clichéd from the lefties?

Anything that doesn't fit into the tree hugging, it's getting pretty hot in the world, there are over 1000 gender types, don't say that, you cant say that Agenda, and its straight to the old Tommy Robinson quote.
Go and plant a money tree for your old leader comrad, corbin the failed!!

How many times has Johnson failed - and May before her - has Brexit happened yet?

 

[SeagullinExile]

How many times has Johnson failed - and May before her - has Brexit happened yet?

Hate to be the bearer of bad news....but it will.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news....but it will.

Let me be clear - I support Leave - I do not support a Tory Brexit where Trump will have Johnson over a barrel and big pharma will carve up the NHS - but any sane person would recognise that the Tories have made an absolute dogs dinner of Brexit (and continue to do so).

 

[SeagullinExile]

Let me be clear - I support Leave - I do not support a Tory Brexit where Trump will have Johnson over a barrel and big pharma will carve up the NHS - but any sane person would recognise that the Tories have made an absolute dogs dinner of Brexit (and continue to do so).

Wasn't having a pop JRG.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This is anti-Semitism or to be exact left wing anti-Semitism, the type that got Ken Livingstone the sack. WRT the holocaust RW anti-Semitism follows the narrative of either the holocaust didn’t happen or if it did it was a good thing, LW anti-Semitism shifts the blame for the holocaust from the Nazi’s onto the Jews often calling them Zionists and accusing them being callous or manipulative/untrustworthy towards other Jews. The definition of Zionism is someone who believes in the state of Israel and cares for the welfare of Jews, Left wing anti-Semitism Labels Jews as Zionists while accusing them of being hostile to the welfare of other Jews, a contradiction masked in semantics (Of course anti-Semites will happily dip into either political wing of anti-sematism).

I will quickly address a couple of factual points that Swansman has claimed in his posts because most of the problem is one of omission. The problem is a lack of independent evidence other than an ideological Rabbi but firstly the claim in another post that Golda Meir had a reputation for being untrustworthy goes against all evidence I can find, Wiki quotes Ben-Gurion as saying of Golda Meir as a "strong-willed, straight-talking, grey-bunned grandmother of the Jewish people."

Also the claim that both houses of parliament debated taking 500,000 million jews would be documented. A lot of the other claims are not credible, like the Gestapo discussed trading Jews for ransom during the war.

Its very hard to find any Citations to Swansmans claims, the rabbi quoted is popular among conspiracy and far left websites with one article titled,

'Zionists Were Spiritually And
Physically*Responsible
For The Holocaust'
Excerpted From An Article By*Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann

https://rense.com/general74/holl.htm

What has been omitted gives a clearer picture. German jews were not quick to leave Germany for a number of reasons. Firstly the 1935 Nuremburg Laws stripped jews of citizenship and the abilit to travel, many that did escape used papers forged by various Ambassadors and consulate works from over 30 embassys including countries like Bolivia and China, secondly German jews thought it was people of ill repute who emigrated(Usually to the USA), and thirdly the Jews expected the worse but not the impossible.

After KristalNacht in November 1938 the policy of the German National Socialist Party was to not let Jews leave to prevent Witness testaments stack up against them(as well as slave labour and hostage value in an impending war). All though a lot of evidence of the final solution was destroyed a lot of evidence was recorded like Transfer documents, ie 40,000 jews from Rotterdam to Belson then on to Auschwitz.
Any evidence of attempts to trade Jews and build up the narrative that they just wanted to rid themselves of the Jews not destroy them would have been retained.

Digging deeper it is not difficult to find evidence that Hitler wanted the Jews destroyed rather than evicted, as well as various rants in Mien Kampf there is this quote by Hitler in 1922..

“"If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be my first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink. They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!" '

As for Corbyn, he is well documented hob nobbing with Hamas and groups advocating genocide of the Jews, this parallels Hitlers warm relationships with Islamic leaders who wanted the Jews destroyed ie the Mufti of Jerusalem. Given the progressive nature of the holocaust which began soon after Hitlers election in 1933 with the Nuremburg laws and ended with Death camps a decade later you cant really blame Jews for being nervous as they see history begin to repeat itself and not wanting to make the same mistake again.

An interesting post. I am not sure that the items listed and the reasoning expounded lead inexorably to the conclusion that Corbyn wants another holocaust, however.

I'm a big fan of Israel (been there) and don't deny that the yob in the street (you Al Das ben Reich, aka Droopy Mohammed types) in surrounding states would like to push it into the Med. That's not universal, though. Jordan has been colluding with Israel (civil engineering) for decades. Seen it with my own eyes. There is hope.

But neither the showboaters in Iran or Israel ease the situation.

Bibi has a strategy of locking the US and its military power into an alliance that will guarantee Israeli survival, and permit expansion into the occupied regions. Takes out small onion and reminds Americans that the Bible was written in Israel (it wasn't) and unless the 'chosen' people are protected, god will destroy America. People really believe that shit. It is a strategy. He'd be better off cooking up deals with the surrounding peasants and helping them stave off the rush into fundamentalist medaevilism however, in my view.

As for Corbyn....no, no, he isn't a secret Nazi and he does not plan a genocide of Jews. FFS. It is stuff like this that makes quite a lot of labour opponents look really, really stupid. For example, the old and agitated, living in Storrington, knowing only white people and christian conservatives, reading the daily express, and shitting their false teeth from their tiny bum hole over the prospect of Corbyn riding into town on the back of a camel, with that black woman behind him, ready to stamp on his geraniums, steal his kids savings and eat his grand children, probably in a foreign curry.

 

[Hastings gull]

An interesting post. I am not sure that the items listed and the reasoning expounded lead inexorably to the conclusion that Corbyn wants another holocaust, however.

I'm a big fan of Israel (been there) and don't deny that the yob in the street (you Al Das ben Reich, aka Droopy Mohammed types) in surrounding states would like to push it into the Med. That's not universal, though. Jordan has been colluding with Israel (civil engineering) for decades. Seen it with my own eyes. There is hope.

But neither the showboaters in Iran or Israel ease the situation.

Bibi has a strategy of locking the US and its military power into an alliance that will guarantee Israeli survival, and permit expansion into the occupied regions. Takes out small onion and reminds Americans that the Bible was written in Israel (it wasn't) and unless the 'chosen' people are protected, god will destroy America. People really believe that shit. It is a strategy. He'd be better off cooking up deals with the surrounding peasants and helping them stave off the rush into fundamentalist medaevilism however, in my view.

As for Corbyn....no, no, he isn't a secret Nazi and he does not plan a genocide of Jews. FFS. It is stuff like this that makes quite a lot of labour opponents look really, really stupid. For example, the old and agitated, living in Storrington, knowing only white people and christian conservatives, reading the daily express, and shitting their false teeth from their tiny bum hole over the prospect of Corbyn riding into town on the back of a camel, with that black woman behind him, ready to stamp on his geraniums, steal his kids savings and eat his grand children, probably in a foreign curry.

Just when you talk of others looking stupid .

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

[/B]

Just when you talk of others looking stupid .

Unlike you to post a non-sentence, with an Alfredmizen style gap between the last letter and the full stop. Pull yourself together, man!

 

[Robot Chicken]

Deir Yassin is just one of the many atrocities they commited against Arabs. Besides, I think I'd fight back too if Israel was trying to steal my land.

Israel isn't stealing any land. There was no massacre in Deir Yassin. No rapes. Lots of unfounded Arab Palestinian propaganda. The false rumours spread by the Arab Palestinian leadership about a massacre, rapes and other atrocities, drove the Arab Palestinian population to leave their homes and run away, becoming a major incentive for the creation of the Arab Palestinian refugee problem.

 

[daveinplzen]

Israel isn't stealing any land. There was no massacre in Deir Yassin. No rapes. Lots of unfounded Arab Palestinian propaganda. The false rumours spread by the Arab Palestinian leadership about a massacre, rapes and other atrocities, drove the Arab Palestinian population to leave their homes and run away, becoming a major incentive for the creation of the Arab Palestinian refugee problem.

Yeah, makes you wonder why Irgun described what they did, and Hagannah described the aftermath so vividly.

 

[Robot Chicken]

Yeah, makes you wonder why Irgun described what they did, and Hagannah described the aftermath so vividly.

Suggest you read this article by Professor Eliezer Tauber: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deir-yassin-the-end-of-a-myth

 

[daveinplzen]

Suggest you read this article by Professor Eliezer Tauber: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/deir-yassin-the-end-of-a-myth

j?

Suggest you read a history book, rather than a conspiracy theorist.
Maybe the people who carried out the atrocity should have kept their mouths shut.

Maybe read the Israeli media, who im sure are also conspiring.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...he-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin-1.5494094

 

[Tooting Gull]

The irony of this false 'anti-semitism' narrative against Corbyn and what he represents (ie a possible Labour victory, different foreign policy priorities) is that millions of Labour voters would back any campaigns to stamp out genuine AS in this country or anywhere else in the world.

What they are not hoodwinked by is the attempts to conflate AS with the actions of the Israel govt, state and security forces towards the Palestinians. Which is something completely different.

Would there be some Venn diagram small subset of those who both oppose the Israel govt's actions towards the Palestinians AND are actually AS? Yes, there probably are. But that number would be small, certainly far smaller than is being portrayed by the media.

There is a reason this has been kept to the forefront of this election campaign. Corbyn has enemies, serious enemies all over the place who feel threatened by him politically. You know the right-wing press and media and the govt are going to wade in to try and smear and embarrass him, and boy have they. The powerful, the wealthy, the elite and the establishment have no intention of seeing a society for the many and not the few, so they have got involved. Even within his own party a Blairite faction never really accepted his ascension to leadership and have never supported him, in my opinion betraying their constituents and Labour voters everywhere. Some of their behaviour - likes of Hodge, Austin etc - has been disgraceful.

We know Israel have tried to interfere with our politics. Al Jazeera's 'The Lobby' - a far better and more balanced investigative programme than the recent BBC Panorama AS effort - was something I doubt the BBC would ever even have broadcast. They certainly haven't to date. As a result of that programme, an Israel spy was sacked by the Embassy in London for being shown trying to take down UK politicians who disagreed with the Israel govt. Also in that programme a young and named pro-Israel govt activist was shown using very threatening language towards a Jewish but pro-Palestinian Labour activist. In the later BBC programme, she was not even named but presented as an innocent whistleblower victim, which was at best disingenuous.

Corbyn presents absolutely no threat whatsoever to the UK's Jewish community, despite the hysterical whipping-up of fear in certain quarters. Quite the opposite. The guy has done more to combat racism in his life than all of us put together. For those Jews in the UK who want a largely pro-Israel foreign policy stance maintained and the Palestinian issues hushed up, then yes - you are not going to be happy if he won. But that is not the same as AS.

I think what has troubled me most on this issue over the last few years are two things. Firstly, that the Jewish community in the UK do not speak with one voice on this. There are many who support Corbyn and disagree with many of Israel's actions. But they are dismissed almost as not being worthy of being listened to by the hardliners. And secondly, what is the REAL legacy of this? I suspect it is confusion - where previously there was none - about what AS actually means. If someone asked me today 'Are you against AS?' I would answer 'Of course I am - as long as it is genuine AS, and not the politically fabricated type'. Previously there would have been no need for the rider.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Israel isn't stealing any land. There was no massacre in Deir Yassin. No rapes. Lots of unfounded Arab Palestinian propaganda. The false rumours spread by the Arab Palestinian leadership about a massacre, rapes and other atrocities, drove the Arab Palestinian population to leave their homes and run away, becoming a major incentive for the creation of the Arab Palestinian refugee problem.

But they do steal Palestinian land...constantly. Their occupation is deemed illegal by most of the world.

It's all lies is it? Unbelievable, defending the indefensible. Typical pro Israeli lobby nonsense.

Still waiting for your evidence of these Hamas atrocities?

 

[Goldstone1976]

The irony of this false 'anti-semitism' narrative against Corbyn and what he represents (ie a possible Labour victory, different foreign policy priorities) is that millions of Labour voters would back any campaigns to stamp out genuine AS in this country or anywhere else in the world.

What they are not hoodwinked by is the attempts to conflate AS with the actions of the Israel govt, state and security forces towards the Palestinians. Which is something completely different.

Would there be some Venn diagram small subset of those who both oppose the Israel govt's actions towards the Palestinians AND are actually AS? Yes, there probably are. But that number would be small, certainly far smaller than is being portrayed by the media.

There is a reason this has been kept to the forefront of this election campaign. Corbyn has enemies, serious enemies all over the place who feel threatened by him politically. You know the right-wing press and media and the govt are going to wade in to try and smear and embarrass him, and boy have they. The powerful, the wealthy, the elite and the establishment have no intention of seeing a society for the many and not the few, so they have got involved. Even within his own party a Blairite faction never really accepted his ascension to leadership and have never supported him, in my opinion betraying their constituents and Labour voters everywhere. Some of their behaviour - likes of Hodge, Austin etc - has been disgraceful.

We know Israel have tried to interfere with our politics. Al Jazeera's 'The Lobby' - a far better and more balanced investigative programme than the recent BBC Panorama AS effort - was something I doubt the BBC would ever even have broadcast. They certainly haven't to date. As a result of that programme, an Israel spy was sacked by the Embassy in London for being shown trying to take down UK politicians who disagreed with the Israel govt. Also in that programme a young and named pro-Israel govt activist was shown using very threatening language towards a Jewish but pro-Palestinian Labour activist. In the later BBC programme, she was not even named but presented as an innocent whistleblower victim, which was at best disingenuous.

Corbyn presents absolutely no threat whatsoever to the UK's Jewish community, despite the hysterical whipping-up of fear in certain quarters. Quite the opposite. The guy has done more to combat racism in his life than all of us put together. For those Jews in the UK who want a largely pro-Israel foreign policy stance maintained and the Palestinian issues hushed up, then yes - you are not going to be happy if he won. But that is not the same as AS.

I think what has troubled me most on this issue over the last few years are two things. Firstly, that the Jewish community in the UK do not speak with one voice on this. There are many who support Corbyn and disagree with many of Israel's actions. But they are dismissed almost as not being worthy of being listened to by the hardliners. And secondly, what is the REAL legacy of this? I suspect it is confusion - where previously there was none - about what AS actually means. If someone asked me today 'Are you against AS?' I would answer 'Of course I am - as long as it is genuine AS, and not the politically fabricated type'. Previously there would have been no need for the rider.

In amongst all the bile on most threads that involve politics, there is occasionally a well-written, thoughtful argument that causes me to pause and reflect - always a good thing. This is one such post - thank you.

 

[SeagullinExile]

j?
Yup
Suggest you read a history book, rather than a conspiracy theorist.
Maybe the people who carried out the atrocity should have kept their mouths shut.

Maybe read the Israeli media, who im sure are also conspiring.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...he-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin-1.5494094

Thanks. Saved me the bother.

 

[Robot Chicken]

But they do steal Palestinian land...constantly. Their occupation is deemed illegal by most of the world.

It's all lies is it? Unbelievable, defending the indefensible. Typical pro Israeli lobby nonsense.

Still waiting for your evidence of these Hamas atrocities?

No, Israel doesn't steal "palestinian" land as there's no such thing. There is no Jewish "occupation" of "palestinian" land. You're spreading untruths. Typical pro "palestinian" lies.

Hamas atrocities? Where do I begin?
How about 15,000 rockets being fired indiscriminately at Israeli civilians, each rocket deemed a war crime?
How about Hamas firing rockets from schools and hospitals?
How about Hamas torturing and killing Arab "palestinians"?
How about Hamas violently suppressing the economic protests in Gaza?
And it's well known that Hamas uses systematic torture to crush any dissent.

 

[Bozza]

To be fair to Corbyn, when faced with the country's most fericoius interviewer today, he did finally apologise.

It took the silver-haired fox, Phillip Schofield on This Morning to finally get that magic word out of him.

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