[Football] Kitson v Taylor

[keaton]

I see. I will review his BAME points in his 100 points.

Do you have a link to the quotes from these BAME players so I can read why they feel they'd be better off with the status quo at the PFA?

Edit: His 100 points include:

45. How much does the PFA spend on its (i) anti-racism campaigns and (ii) anti-racism education programmes?

46. Given the reported recent rise in racist abuse aimed at its membership during matches by spectators and players, what has the PFA done to eradicate it?

47. Does the PFA consider it has done enough in this regard?

48. If not: what more does the PFA intend to do about it?

49. How does the PFA support its members who are victims of racist abuse beyond offering a helpline service?

Perfectly reasonable, balanced and commendable, particularly in the context of his other points.

From your post and link to the mail article I was assuming he had a history of describing monkey chanting as 'Bantz' or something.

What is the issue here? Is it becaused hes a ginner?

There are links in the F365 article to Steven Reid's tweet and to an article about Tyrone Mings pulling out of Talksport interview because of Kitson's comments about the Sterling Chelsea incident. Other BAME players have criticised him in three past and now. I don't have an issue with his 5 points, but he's possibly not placed to criticise

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are links in the F365 article to Steven Reid's tweet and to an article about Tyrone Mings pulling out of Talksport interview because of Kitson's comments about the Sterling Chelsea incident. Other BAME players have criticised him in three past and now. I don't have an issue with his 5 points, but he's possibly not placed to criticise

Apologies. I'll check all that out properly later.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

My favourite memory of Kitson is from the FA Cup match at Withdean when he was playing for Portsmouth. Adam El Abd wound him up mercilessly from the first minute, and after about twenty minutes, Kitson lost it and shoved AEA, who went over as if pole-axed.

Kitson was sent off.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are links in the F365 article to Steven Reid's tweet and to an article about Tyrone Mings pulling out of Talksport interview because of Kitson's comments about the Sterling Chelsea incident. Other BAME players have criticised him in three past and now. I don't have an issue with his 5 points, but he's possibly not placed to criticise

OK I have read and listened to the radio interview. Steven Reid had made up "Is this the same Dave Kitson that accused the likes of Raheem Sterling of “bringing it on themselves” ". By 'it' he means racism. Kitson never said any such thing. He said that (some) players "make themselves a target" and he did not say a target of rasism. He said that after condemning racism, in order to explain how Sterling's 'look at me' tweets puts people who are not racist against him. He made himself perfectly clear. There is no justification of an accusation of racism there at all.

I think the likes of Reid and anyone else jumping on this bandwagon are misguided. Just like those black 'spokespersons' who accused the Albion of racism when we sacked Chris Hughton. It's easy to read too much into things. That was a small clip used to promote a position. If this is the only bit of 'racism' that can be found to besmirch Kitson, then it's pretty pathetic. It doesn't matter how many people retweet their condemnation, or how many black players join the chorus.

Kitson may be a nob for ther reasons - I have no idea. But people need to learn to pick the right fight in the war against racism.

 

[keaton]

OK I have read and listened to the radio interview. Steven Reid had made up "Is this the same Dave Kitson that accused the likes of Raheem Sterling of “bringing it on themselves” ". By 'it' he means racism. Kitson never said any such thing. He said that (some) players "make themselves a target" and he did not say a target of rasism. He said that after condemning racism, in order to explain how Sterling's 'look at me' tweets puts people who are not racist against him. He made himself perfectly clear. There is no justification of an accusation of racism there at all.

I think the likes of Reid and anyone else jumping on this bandwagon are misguided. Just like those black 'spokespersons' who accused the Albion of racism when we sacked Chris Hughton. It's easy to read too much into things. That was a small clip used to promote a position. If this is the only bit of 'racism' that can be found to besmirch Kitson, then it's pretty pathetic. It doesn't matter how many people retweet their condemnation, or how many black players join the chorus.

Kitson may be a nob for ther reasons - I have no idea. But people need to learn to pick the right fight in the war against racism.

Fair enough if that's your view. I think he was victim-blaming . I think there's also an issue with crisising black players for things which aren't commented on in white players.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Fair enough if that's your view. I think he was victim-blaming . I think there's also an issue with crisising black players for things which aren't commented on in white players.

Yes, both thoughts did cross my mind. And strictly speaking you're probably right. When people say things there is always a possibility that they will be taken to mean things that weren't meant.

I still think it is reasonable to deduce that he was offering an explanation for why people don't like Sterling rather than justifying it. Sterling has had pelters on here in the past (before he became the respected figure he is now) and when that happened the criticism of him (apart from the racist criticism of course) did not strike me as racist, nor did it strike me as an explanation let alone a justification for racism against him. Indeed there is no 'explanation' or 'justification' for racism. It is racism, like bestiality is bestiality.

The upshot of this will be that Taylor will probably now remain as the president of their union. If footballers, black and otherwise, prefer this then that's their business, of course.

 

[FatSuperman]

Not sure whether you'd consider it racist, or just ignorant - in view of how some people will take it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

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Not sure whether you'd consider it racist, or just ignorant - in view of how some people will take it.

Reading the comments, unless deliberately substituting one Spanish Liverpool player's name with anothers' is racist, and allowing people to refer to himself as 'Steve Sidwell' on his own thread is racist....it could be argued that he's just being silly with names for low comedy purposes.

I have a feeling this 'Kitson is a wrong 'un' trope is being recieved gleefully by those who want to see controversy, and the inevitable backlash against the people who have jumped on the 'Kitson is racist' bandwagon. People, perfectly innocently, sharing content with the sort of comments above, could be argued to be fuelling this. Here's the sort of narrative one might imagine...

Yes Kitson could be construed as being racist.

Therefore he is racist.

But 'certain people' are obviously being 'over sensitive' about this.

'As usual. If you know what I mean.'.

Thus it could be argued that by sharing the content shown in the previous post (above) this is promoting racism. I am not arguing that this is the case, but that's how some people might take it.

 

[GT49er]

Yes, both thoughts did cross my mind. And strictly speaking you're probably right. When people say things there is always a possibility that they will be taken to mean things that weren't meant.

I still think it is reasonable to deduce that he was offering an explanation for why people don't like Sterling rather than justifying it. Sterling has had pelters on here in the past (before he became the respected figure he is now) and when that happened the criticism of him (apart from the racist criticism of course) did not strike me as racist, nor did it strike me as an explanation let alone a justification for racism against him. Indeed there is no 'explanation' or 'justification' for racism. It is racism, like bestiality is bestiality.

The upshot of this will be that Taylor will probably now remain as the president of their union. If footballers, black and otherwise, prefer this then that's their business, of course.

It's a handy bit of whataboutery for Taylor and his supporters I suppose (though I find it hard to believe there are any Taylor supporters).

 

[FatSuperman]

Reading the comments, unless deliberately substituting one Spanish Liverpool player's name with anothers' is racist, and allowing people to refer to himself as 'Steve Sidwell' on his own thread is racist....it could be argued that he's just being silly with names for low comedy purposes.

I agree with your sentiment. I got those from a Twitter feed, and just now whilst waiting outside a shop, I went onto Instagram and looked through - there are quite a few more along this line that do not feature black players. So frankly, these ones have been cherry-picked to make a point. Kitson might just have this hilarious thing where he regularly gets the players wrong.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I agree with your sentiment. I got those from a Twitter feed, and just now whilst waiting outside a shop, I went onto Instagram and looked through - there are quite a few more along this line that do not feature black players. So frankly, these ones have been cherry-picked to make a point. Kitson might just have this hilarious thing where he regularly gets the players wrong.

That's kind of you to bother to reply to my tortuous pontificating. Appreciated.