[Politics] Johnson or Hunt?

[LlcoolJ]

As one of the over 60 white male Tory members alowed to vote, reluctantly I voted for Hunt as the 'least worse' option, neither inspire but Boris scares me. When (not if) he is confirmed at 11 today i'll be cancelling my membership and joining the LibDems, Jo at least gives me some confidence that there are sensible people in politics.

Well said sir.

 

[BensGrandad]

I wonder how many will defect to Lib Dems initially and then realize that they are a party going nowhere other than competing with the Green party for 3rd or 4th place and then return to the Tory fold eventually. With their MP number unlikely to ever exceed 50 they will never be a force thankfully. They have always been a party who dont know what they want and want to sit on the fence between the 'big boys'.

 

[beorhthelm]

True, sadly. People just believe what they're told. Even this round of austerity was blamed on mishandling of public funds by Labour, but it really was total nonsense swallowed by the gullible. Anyone who knows the first thing about Keynsian economics recognises that a public sector borrowing requirement is a necessity, and I don't recall anything Labour did that left us in a state as shocking as the one the Tories have left us in now. The Tories have been an absolute disaster for some sectors of society, and they are ruining the economy with some terrible policies.

Keynsian economics suggests public spending on infrastructure to help the economy out of recession, cutting that spending once the recession ends. Brownian economics thought that it would be great to do the spending when not in recession, not on infrastructure (PFI soaked up a lot of that) and not worry about the cutting back part. when a large shock came along, the Keynsian principle was looked at only to find they already had an awful lot of public spending planned just at the time the ability to borrow was restricted. current economic policy is relatively benign, growth suggests its it positive, problems lie in social and other policies. on general economic mismanagement, it does seem to be both party make hash of things when they try to intervene too much. they take credit for the cyclical up swings and blame others/events for the down swings. one of the unsaid concerns is who will see as the next chancellor as i have little faith in some of the names being thrown around under a Johnson leadership, and this will be crucial to how we cope with the next few years and upcoming recession.

 

[thejackal]

Thanks Sim.
No, thankfully, but we do donate.

Donating to food banks should be wholeheartedly commended...

...although the best way to help those concerned is to avoid supporting the selfish politicians whose policies cause the problem in the first place.

Oh, and many happy returns of the day!

 

[Simster]

Keynsian economics suggests public spending on infrastructure to help the economy out of recession, cutting that spending once the recession ends. Brownian economics thought that it would be great to do the spending when not in recession, not on infrastructure (PFI soaked up a lot of that) and not worry about the cutting back part. when a large shock came along, the Keynsian principle was looked at only to find they already had an awful lot of public spending planned just at the time the ability to borrow was restricted. current economic policy is relatively benign, growth suggests its it positive, problems lie in social and other policies. on general economic mismanagement, it does seem to be both party make hash of things when they try to intervene too much. they take credit for the cyclical up swings and blame others/events for the down swings. one of the unsaid concerns is who will see as the next chancellor as i have little faith in some of the names being thrown around under a Johnson leadership, and this will be crucial to how we cope with the next few years and upcoming recession.

I'm not disputing that Brown overspent, but it was to nothing like the disastrous extent that the right wing press would have had you believe. It's not like we were struggling to pay public sector workers like in the days of Derek Hatton's Liverpool. Government spending as a percentage of GDP reached a height of 45% in 2010 when Labour were booted out, but for context it is hovering around 41% now and was a good deal less than that under most of Labour's stewardship:

Now consider this. Under the Conservatives, that government spending has barely changed, yet I am now expected to find £60,000 to put my three kids through university. Where has that money gone then? We have knife crime issues. Where are all the police? We have more people using food banks than ever - even working people - and more people living on the streets, you can see it with your own eyes. It was never that bad under Labour. Ever.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5509/economics/government-spending-under-labour/


And all that doesn't even consider the distructivenesss of Brexit that is entirely the fault of the conservatives being bullied by the loons in the ERG and the blue-rinse brigade which has divided the nation, and threatens the existence of the union - all because it is nothing but a game to selfish posh etonian clowns who are running that party now.

So when people like BLOCK F insist socialism would be a disaster and trot off without the bothering with trifling matters like explaining themselves - over and over again - it makes me dispair. When did we get to the point that it was OK to put blind faith in the priveleged because, er, "well look at the opposition!!"? It's shameful.

 

[Mellotron]

Another Tory MP has resigned in protest at the threat of No Deal Brexit today. More to follow. Could well be the shortest reign of any Prime Minister in history.

 

[nicko31]

Interesting that the Tories feel their own party members are intelligent enough to vote in their leadership vote at age 16 or 17, but seems in the wider country they are just too thick

 

[Mellotron]

Interesting that the Tories feel their own party members are intelligent enough to vote in their leadership vote at age 16 or 17, but seems in the wider country they are just too thick

Interesting is one word for it. They really are duplicitous *****.

I don't understand how anyone can vote Tory now, genuinely. Forget Labour, I'm not saying they're great at all - I almost certainly won't vote for them, the next time I have an opportunity to.

I just don't understand how a turkey can know it is a turkey, be told it's going to get eaten and still vote for Christmas.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Why can't these Tories just apologise in advance, and tell us who won??

 

[beorhthelm]

Now consider this. Under the Conservatives, that government spending has barely changed, yet I am now expected to find £60,000 to put my three kids through university. Where has that money gone then?

mostly on welfare budget. under Labour you would have been expected to pay £30k, assuming fees rise in the intervening 10 years. the shortfall was paid by general taxation, competing with everything else. what we dont seem to want to do is increase general taxation, fiddle around the edges for a % or two of GDP while demanding European levels of state expenditure. the current plans for Corbyn/McDonnell would be pretty terrible for the medium/long term as they rely on the Brownian economics, spend borrowed money. im not sure how different the current or future conservative government will be, as they dont seem to have a clear economic policy beyond narrow, negative "leave EU" which isnt going to help the wider economy for some time if at all.

 

[Mellotron]

Boris even claps like an oddball. How can you get clapping wrong?

 

[BLOCK F]

I'm not disputing that Brown overspent, but it was to nothing like the disastrous extent that the right wing press would have had you believe. It's not like we were struggling to pay public sector workers like in the days of Derek Hatton's Liverpool. Government spending as a percentage of GDP reached a height of 45% in 2010 when Labour were booted out, but for context it is hovering around 41% now and was a good deal less than that under most of Labour's stewardship:

Now consider this. Under the Conservatives, that government spending has barely changed, yet I am now expected to find £60,000 to put my three kids through university. Where has that money gone then? We have knife crime issues. Where are all the police? We have more people using food banks than ever - even working people - and more people living on the streets, you can see it with your own eyes. It was never that bad under Labour. Ever.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5509/economics/government-spending-under-labour/


And all that doesn't even consider the distructivenesss of Brexit that is entirely the fault of the conservatives being bullied by the loons in the ERG and the blue-rinse brigade which has divided the nation, and threatens the existence of the union - all because it is nothing but a game to selfish posh etonian clowns who are running that party now.

So when people like BLOCK F insist socialism would be a disaster and trot off without the bothering with trifling matters like explaining themselves - over and over again - it makes me dispair. When did we get to the point that it was OK to put blind faith in the priveleged because, er, "well look at the opposition!!"? It's shameful.

Birthday or not, Simster, I have to say that there is little or no point in getting into prolonged discussions about the merits or otherwise of a Corbyn government.
There is plenty of comment and opinion about this from politicos who are far more engaged in the process than I am , in print and online, and I have to say, that except for the far left supporting organisations, the general consensus appears to suggest that it wouldn't be a good thing for the country. You and I will never agree, whatever I say.
Perhaps the most telling point I can make, is that despite the awful Conservatives that you so thoroughly despise being in power and apparently cocking everything up, your wonderful far left socialists are still behind in the polls!
Seems like I am not alone in my views.
P.S. I am not trotting off, but going out for lunch with my fellow vile non believers in far left socialism, namely my wife , number one son and daughter, plus grandson.Blimey, how the privileged few live!
Finally, Why do you frequently get so venomous on NSC? It makes one suspect that you have anger management issues and operate on a very short fuse.

 

[Bozza]

Jesus - 92,153 people have a lot to answer for.

How could anyone vote for Boris Johnson to lead our country?

 

[Simster]

mostly on welfare budget. under Labour you would have been expected to pay £30k, assuming fees rise in the intervening 10 years. the shortfall was paid by general taxation, competing with everything else. what we dont seem to want to do is increase general taxation, fiddle around the edges for a % or two of GDP while demanding European levels of state expenditure. the current plans for Corbyn/McDonnell would be pretty terrible for the medium/long term as they rely on the Brownian economics, spend borrowed money. im not sure how different the current or future conservative government will be, as they dont seem to have a clear economic policy beyond narrow, negative "leave EU" which isnt going to help the wider economy for some time if at all.

So under Labour I was expected to pay £30k rather than £60k. That extra THIRTY THOUSAND POUNDS is an awful lot of money and yes the shortfall was paid for by general taxation. But my point is that government spending has barely changed, so what have they done with all that money then?

 

[Trufflehound]

Ho well. There goes the country...

 

[Mellotron]

Wow. Thickets running the UK and the US. Bizarre times we live in.

 

[Simster]

Let the utter shitshow commence. I'm past caring. He is going to be fcking useless.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

May as well just announce Trump instead.

 

[nicko31]

Jesus - 92,153 people have a lot to answer for.

How could anyone vote for Boris Johnson to lead our country?

Well not many on them are on NSC

 

[Stumpy Tim]

****. Boris is a ****