[News] Jimmy Carr

[clapham_gull]

Could "Till death us do part" be made now?

Which is a fascinating comment in itself, because it opens the debate about what the writer meant, how it was received by a live audience and how it was further received when broadcast into homes.

Obviously the writer wasn't racist and the joke was on the racist Alf Garnett.

However, the problem was (as is the problem with a number of programmes of that era) they were filmed live in front of a 60s studio audience.

Unfortunately the audience are laughing at the racist jokes and not the person telling them.

Some writers like to separate what they meant from the audience reaction. Unfortunately (in a lot of older sitcoms) the response they claimed didn't want is baked in and becomes part of the performance itself.

That's why a number of sitcoms have been edited or aren't shown any more on broadcast TV.

So the answer to your question is yes, but not as a sitcom with a live audience broadcast to the nation.

 

[clapham_gull]

...especially on someone else’s behalf.

Sorry, but that's an overused ignorant cliché straight from the culture war playbook. The sort of thing Nadine Dorries would say.

Defend Jimmy Carr by all means but not on the basis if you aren't disabled or a Gypsy you can't comment.

 

[LamieRobertson]

As Warren Mitchell, Johnny Speight, Una Stubbs, Dandy Nicholls and Tony Booth are all no longer alive, could be tricky.

Yeah but apart from that minor problem

 

[Seagull58]

In theory yes, as we all know it's taking the rise out of a bigot. In practice, I doubt it. The modern extreme right would miscomprehend and see Garnett as a plain speaking hero, telling it how it is. You would get the modern extreme left miscomprehending and thinking they were glorifying bigotry.

Luckily for the more level headed, measured and intelligent among us there are programs such as Curb Your Enthusiasm that tackle the blurred lines of what is acceptable, in an intelligent, thought provoking and very, very, funny way.

I think many people empathised with Garnett's bigotry in those days, possibly even more than today.

 

[Seagull58]

As Warren Mitchell, Johnny Speight, Una Stubbs, Dandy Nicholls and Tony Booth are all no longer alive, could be tricky.

But they are just actors and can be replaced, as with most remakes. The question is whether a program that ridicules racist bigotry (but which was enjoyed by many racist bigots because they didn't understand the ridicule) would be allowed to be made today.

 

[clapham_gull]

But they are just actors and can be replaced, as with most remakes. The question is whether a program that ridicules racist bigotry (but which was enjoyed by many racist bigots because they didn't understand the ridicule) would be allowed to be made today.

Not as a sitcom in front of a live studio audience.

The jury is out on Johnny Speight though. Before we'd even heard the word "cancelled" he a couple of further sitcoms that never saw the light of day or were cancelled by the authorities after one series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_and_Chips

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Melting_Pot_(TV_series)

.. and that was in the late 60s / 1970s.

There is a bit of a myth that these programmes are only controversial now when looked back on by today's standards.

It simply isn't true.

 

[CheeseRolls]

But they are just actors and can be replaced, as with most remakes. The question is whether a program that ridicules racist bigotry (but which was enjoyed by many racist bigots because they didn't understand the ridicule) would be allowed to be made today.

It it could find an audience, I suspect the answer is yes. Some Mother Do Ave 'Em was a massive comedy hit of the seventies. I am not entirely sure what culture cancelled it.

Not every line a comedian utters is supposed to be funny, which should be obvious from the Carr clip. Some spend longer building a story or a persona than others, even famous gag a minute crowd pleasers like Ken Dodd, had gaps between the jokes. No one can laugh for 2 hours without a break.

The audience doesn't laugh at or with Carr, they are supposed to be shocked. He has that strange sideways glance, just to assure you this is a little bit edgy, a little bit dangerous. If a room full of people want to pay to watch this and they are happy with it, that is their choice. If someone wants to buy this on DVD or on a pay to watch service again free choice. What does this say about Netflix and their values?

I have stopped watching Netflix, as I think the content has gone downhill rapidly. This prompted me to run through my family viewing stats since Christmas. Don't look Down and a bit of Ricky Gervais for £13.99 a month isn't particularly good value. A family conversation to follow, as this is spread over 4 users.

 

[clapham_gull]

It it could find an audience, I suspect the answer is yes. Some Mother Do Ave 'Em was a massive comedy hit of the seventies. I am not entirely sure what culture cancelled it.

It's on Brit Box.

 

[CheeseRolls]

It's on Brit Box.

So it is possible for something to be hugely popular nearly 40 years ago, to now be niche viewing and only of interest to a small minority, without the pervading influence of woke/cancel culture?

 

[cunning fergus]

The weirdest part of all of this is that the same people on here calling him a right winged borderline Nazi are the same group of people wanting him arrested and put in prison for saying something they didn't like, which is in itself crazily authoritarian and a trademark of fascism. I believe he even says at the start of his routine on this particular one: "This show contains jokes about terrible things. Terrible things that may have affected you and the people that you love.’

‘But these are just jokes. They’re not the terrible things. There’s a huge difference between doing a joke about a rape, and doing a rape."

If it's me, and I hear that, and I don't want to hear things that could offend me I'd turn the show off. Why would I want to be upset? Why would I want to be angry and offended and emotionally triggered in distressing ways? Just turn it off and don't give him the audience.

Indeed, we live in interesting times, many of those that would define themselves as liberal are the most censorious, when these kind of storms blow up I genuinely think we are not far away from such liberal groups literally burning the books of authors they disagree with.

Ironically, the last author that had his books regularly burnt in the U.K. in large protests against its content said……

“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend it ceases to exist.”

Quite.

 

[clapham_gull]

So it is possible for something to be hugely popular nearly 40 years ago, to now be niche viewing and only of interest to a small minority, without the pervading influence of woke/cancel culture?

Of course and all these shows have been available on DVD for years.

 

[rogersix]

Indeed, we live in interesting times, many of those that would define themselves as liberal are the most censorious, when these kind of storms blow up I genuinely think we are not far away from such liberal groups literally burning the books of authors they disagree with.

Ironically, the last author that had his books regularly burnt in the U.K. in large protests against its content said……

“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend it ceases to exist.”

Quite.

have you tried breathing into a paper bag?

 

[Baker lite]

Indeed, we live in interesting times, many of those that would define themselves as liberal are the most censorious, when these kind of storms blow up I genuinely think we are not far away from such liberal groups literally burning the books of authors they disagree with.

Ironically, the last author that had his books regularly burnt in the U.K. in large protests against its content said……

“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend it ceases to exist.”

Quite.

Very much this, I’ve always found the off switch works perfectly well if I find someone has offended me.
Unfortunately the democracy denying loons are shouting the loudest, the Leftwaffe want us all to live in a sterile,soulless world. Oh well, hopefully I’ll be dead before it all gets to silly.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

nauseating **** at best.

you are correct, just says what causes a reaction.

Unfortunately that seems to be true of so many modern comedians these days.

Any publicity is good publicity, and if gets people talking about Jimmy Carr again, keeping his name and act alive, then from his point of view he probably looks upon it as a positive.

 

[Stat Brother]

So it is possible for something to be hugely popular nearly 40 years ago, to now be niche viewing and only of interest to a small minority, without the pervading influence of woke/cancel culture?

Last week I had a brief shouted chat, in a noisy environment, with a 30 something Romanian colleague.

RC "Mr Stat, Mr Stat, guess what I'm watching?"
Me "I'd hate to think".
"Mind Your Language".
"What?"
"Mind Your Language".
"Mind Your Language!".

Scroll forward a couple of minutes..

Him - "Yes Mind Your Language"
Me - "Are you sure? The racist 1970's comedy?"
"Yes Mr Stat it's really funny".


He has spent the last week quoting it too me.
All racist, all shite, but I'll be lying if I denied the fact that the joy he gets from it isn't infectious.

I keep meaning to fire up the YouTube devise and remind myself it's not the programme he thinks it is.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Indeed, we live in interesting times, many of those that would define themselves as liberal are the most censorious, when these kind of storms blow up I genuinely think we are not far away from such liberal groups literally burning the books of authors they disagree with.

Ironically, the last author that had his books regularly burnt in the U.K. in large protests against its content said……

“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend it ceases to exist.”

Quite.

Very much this, I’ve always found the off switch works perfectly well if I find someone has offended me.
Unfortunately the democracy denying loons are shouting the loudest, the Leftwaffe want us all to live in a sterile,soulless world. Oh well, hopefully I’ll be dead before it all gets to silly.

A couple of really provocative posts here !
I expect that all the people on this thread banging on about banning Jimmy Carr are going to be furious right now. This is going to create a massive row.......Except of course no one has actually argued for this.

Carry on with the shadow boxing, not a single mark on either of them!

 

[rippleman]

The "gypsies" persecuted during the holocaust were Romany gypsies. They have their own culture and language and go back to the 11th/12th century.

The "gypsies" that most of us encounter are Irish travellers. They are the group that tear up our open spaces, rip off pensioners for a "new" drive or roof, commit petty crime, fail to ensure their children are properly educated, dress pre-teen girls up in short skirts and caked in make-up, teach young boys to fight to settle each and every argument, dodge all kinds of taxes etc.

Carr's joke doesn't work if you make that distinction. Around 500K Romany gypsies were slaughtered by the nazis. I think I can see where he was aiming but he chose the wrong target and then missed by a country mile.

 

[The Fifth Column]

I saw part of a routine today of a young jewish american comedian, Alex Edelman. He's telling a story/joke about his younger brother attending summer camp and says the following,"It's a Jewish camp...don't worry it's one of the good kind", gets a laugh. So a joke about the Holocaust from a Jewish comedian, I've yet to see any cancelling of Edelman for daring to reference the Holocaust in his routine. Its an oblique reference of course rather than Carrs overt reference but that's just semantics. The point is these jokes are more about the audiences reaction than the joke itself, its about the comedian trying to tap into the audience and make them laugh, he's not a racist and neither are the majority of the audience but he knows that he's touching a taboo subject and that will often trigger a response. Comedy is dead if people or groups of people can't be subject of a joke.

 

[sydney]

It's racist.

it isn't racist , gypsies aren't a race .....it's crass and uncouth but it isn't racist , i'm Irish had loads of BANTER through my formative years , unfortunately i'm one of the ones who didn't give a shyte and you got back what you gave out , i'm happy in my skin .......which is apparently all that matters , what a load of old bollox honestly , people are just stupid these days , uneducated ****whitts.And there is a reason for it.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

it isn't racist , gypsies aren't a race .....it's crass and uncouth but it isn't racist , i'm Irish had loads of BANTER through my formative years , unfortunately i'm one of the ones who didn't give a shyte and you got back what you gave out , i'm happy in my skin .......which is apparently all that matters , what a load of old bollox honestly , people are just stupid these days , uneducated ****whitts.And there is a reason for it.

Romani/gypsies are a race.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk