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[Cricket] It's just not cricket
- Thread starter crodonilson
- Start date
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
On current population, the 6 Australian teams between 27,000,000 works out to 4.5million people per team.
The 18 English and Welsh teams share about 59,000,000 people, which works out to 3.3million people per team. Which is notably less but not drastically so.
If New Zealand (for example) were to base their first class system on the Australian teams/people ratio, they'd end up with one team. Who would have to field and bat at the same time while playing a fixture list exclusively consisting of matches against themselves.
On the other hand, if India were to rejig their system to reflect Australia's, they'd have 311 first class teams.
um bongo molongo
Well-known member
It’s Australia’s national sport, whereas a relatively small % of our population play (or have interest in) cricket. The more accurate comparison would be between ‘playing populations’. There’s a reason why, with a few notable exceptions, they’ve generally been better than us (since the 80s anyway), despite a much smaller overall population.On current population, the 6 Australian teams between 27,000,000 works out to 4.5million people per team.
The 18 English and Welsh teams share about 59,000,000 people, which works out to 3.3million people per team. Which is notably less but not drastically so.
If New Zealand (for example) were to base their first class system on the Australian teams/people ratio, they'd end up with one team. Who would have to field and bat at the same time while playing a fixture list exclusively consisting of matches against themselves.
On the other hand, if India were to rejig their system to reflect Australia's, they'd have 311 first class teams.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 25,887
Well by that logic, if we take the participation figures at face value (I wouldn't for either country), England should only have 3 teams.
The issue isn't that England have too many teams, that has as many benefits as it does problems, the issue is a smaller playing population (definitely not going to be helped by removing the professional game from most of the country) and conditions that are less conducive to the sport.
Even as it is, I'd suggest that if you replaced Steve Smith with a "typically good Australian test cricketer" over the last 10 years, most if not all of the difference between the teams would disappear. Obviously you could also say that England would be a worse team without Root, but the most he's averaged in an Ashes series is 57 in 2015, while Smith managed 56, 137 and 110 over 2015, 2017/18 and 2019. If he'd "only" averaged 57 in that 2019 series there's a decent chance England would have won every game.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,625
The problem with doing this in cricket is the same as it has been in other sports. People don't just have an affinity to the sport, they have an affinity to their favourite team.
Robert Maxwell thought that he could merge Oxford and Reading and get Thames Valley Royals with twice the fanbase. Maurice Lindsay thought he could merge Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers to get a new team with three times the fanbase. But the fans didn't want to play.
It's a dodgy way of doing business to upset your current customers in hopes of attracting new ones.
Besides to answer the OP, trying to cut down the amount of domestic cricket to what is acceptable to a test player, can't be done. If they had to play twice they would want to play only once. The amount of cricket isn't half now compared with 50 years ago, and still they complain.
Which just goes to show how moronic in so many senses industry people are. Perhaps when we observe how utterly sh*te Sugar's BBC Apprentice candidates are, they actually fit the mould.
ROSM
Well-known member
And we still haven't got to alex Carey (one of the said part time few game mercenaries) who managed in the 2019 t20 quarter final against Worcestershire to get out cheaply for 8 and then dropped moeen on 6 and 12 before he went on to score a match winning 120ish in 60 odd balls.
I know Broad told him what he would be remembered for but I do bear a grudge and won't forget or get over it.
I find it maddening that everyone can see the issue is the 100 and yet those in power keep flogging it.
Mucks up the county fixtures
removal of a valid and top class 50 over cup - you know, the one there is a world cup for
tires out players
loses money
Just bin it.
Mucks up the county fixtures
removal of a valid and top class 50 over cup - you know, the one there is a world cup for
tires out players
loses money
Just bin it.
Reducing domestic cricket matches will not help, says Jon Filby
Reducing the amount of domestic cricket will not help the sport, says Sussex chair Jon Filby.
www.bbc.co.uk
Reducing the amount of domestic cricket will not help the sport, says Sussex chair Jon Filby.
A post from Annie Chave on the Country Cricket Matter FB group:
It’s worth members and fans listening in to this important & very well researched and clear interview between Kevin Howells and Alan Higham on the implications of the sale of the 100 franchises. Alan’s interview appears at 2:19.30 *essential listening*
www.bbc.co.uk
It’s worth members and fans listening in to this important & very well researched and clear interview between Kevin Howells and Alan Higham on the implications of the sale of the 100 franchises. Alan’s interview appears at 2:19.30 *essential listening*
Cricket - Lancashire v Kent - BBC Sounds
Kevin Howells presents live commentary of Lancashire v Kent in the County Championship.
www.bbc.co.uk
Change at Barnham
Well-known member
Sussex Chairman Jon Filby raises an excellent point, the current schedule is abysmal not the amount of cricket played.
A total of seven days cricket at Hove throughout July and August is a disgrace.
"The issue that we, as the counties, would have is Sussex cricket have got three days to put before our members during July and four days during August, and that isn't enough cricket," Filby said.
"From my perspective, I would say I want more cricket. I understand that is also completely unrealistic. The main thing that I do agree with them on is that the schedule is abysmal."
A total of seven days cricket at Hove throughout July and August is a disgrace.
"The issue that we, as the counties, would have is Sussex cricket have got three days to put before our members during July and four days during August, and that isn't enough cricket," Filby said.
"From my perspective, I would say I want more cricket. I understand that is also completely unrealistic. The main thing that I do agree with them on is that the schedule is abysmal."
um bongo molongo
Well-known member
I’d argue there’s a bigger gap in the bowling. We haven’t had a spinner comparable to Lyon for years, and before that they had Warne. And their 3 quicks currently are superb.Well by that logic, if we take the participation figures at face value (I wouldn't for either country), England should only have 3 teams.
The issue isn't that England have too many teams, that has as many benefits as it does problems, the issue is a smaller playing population (definitely not going to be helped by removing the professional game from most of the country) and conditions that are less conducive to the sport.
Even as it is, I'd suggest that if you replaced Steve Smith with a "typically good Australian test cricketer" over the last 10 years, most if not all of the difference between the teams would disappear. Obviously you could also say that England would be a worse team without Root, but the most he's averaged in an Ashes series is 57 in 2015, while Smith managed 56, 137 and 110 over 2015, 2017/18 and 2019. If he'd "only" averaged 57 in that 2019 series there's a decent chance England would have won every game.
I think, most places outside Australia, there's not much between the seam attacks. If we could ever go to Australia with a fully fit side we might even be competitive on that score (and it's not like the seamers in and around the England team are being flogged to death on the county treadmill because they're normally too injured to get on the field for their counties).
Lyon's clearly better than anybody we've had since Swann, and obviously Warne's better than just about anybody England have had since the 1950s, but beyond that England's spinners have "generally" been at or about the same level as Australia's.
It's also worth nothing, to take it back to the original point about the number or teams, that our best spinners in recent years have generally either started at or played most of their career at the sort of smaller county that would be dumped in any rearrangement.
Swann and Panesar - Northants
Bashir - Somerset
Ahmed - Leicestershire
Ali - Worcestershire
Change at Barnham
Well-known member
This article from Barney Ronay IMHO is excellent and sets out all the reasons why the ECB and the counties need to think a little longer before they sell off our wonderful game to overseas investors.
A decision that will put a nail in the coffin of counties like Sussex and Kent.
If you have a spare five minutes please give it a read, it's very important.
Selling off the summer? Why Hundred plans should matter to all cricket lovers - Barney Ronay
A decision that will put a nail in the coffin of counties like Sussex and Kent.
If you have a spare five minutes please give it a read, it's very important.
Selling off the summer? Why Hundred plans should matter to all cricket lovers - Barney Ronay
Indeed. Great article and for me these two paragraphs sum up the Hundred:
One problem is the obvious impediments to holding any kind of objective discussion. First the Hundred itself is an endlessly divisive entity. The good bits are clear enough. The Hundred was designed to expand the game’s reach and source newer, younger consumers. These are logical aims. Given the ECB’s own record of failure in growing the game, something had to be done. The Hundred offered the chance of a reset, for women’s teams to be given status, visibility and investment, for the junking of some old restrictive habits.
The problem is the collateral damage to all the other bits. The Hundred is unavoidably parasitic. It requires every other format to be subjugated and run down, although part of this is a deliberate managed decline to ensure its own success. People who have supported the game and kept it alive like the other formats. Test cricket is still the greatest cash cow. It is currently being asked to subsidise the thing that will cut its legs off, a Hundred that provides no players, no pathway, no midsummer stage in return.
(Hope only doing a partial quote is within the NSC rules. The link to the full article is still there)
They want to control the direction of their investment, and to do so without interference from Sir Bufton Ballsack, who may well be a stalwart of the county board but knows very little about harvesting eyeballs.
The non-host counties, also known as first turkeys on the Christmas meat hook, have begun to question the deal being offered. There are windfalls and annual stipends to be divvied up. Money is being grubbed over. The heirs are gathered around the casket, arguing over the silver.
The problem is the collateral damage to all the other bits. The Hundred is unavoidably parasitic. It requires every other format to be subjugated and run down, although part of this is a deliberate managed decline to ensure its own success.
Test cricket is still the greatest cash cow. It is currently being asked to subsidise the thing that will cut its legs off, a Hundred that provides no players, no pathway, no midsummer stage in return.
The ECB’s chosen buyer-locator is the Raine Group, whose last job in English football was introducing Chelsea to Todd Boehly. These people are not always benevolent actors.
What will be the role of, say Kent CCC, in 10 years’ time? English cricket has a lot of money and a lot of debt. Where will this new money go?
Has the self interest of players, agents, broadcasters and all interested parties with a platform been excluded from consideration of the merits or otherwise of this course of action?
The non-host counties, also known as first turkeys on the Christmas meat hook, have begun to question the deal being offered. There are windfalls and annual stipends to be divvied up. Money is being grubbed over. The heirs are gathered around the casket, arguing over the silver.
The problem is the collateral damage to all the other bits. The Hundred is unavoidably parasitic. It requires every other format to be subjugated and run down, although part of this is a deliberate managed decline to ensure its own success.
Test cricket is still the greatest cash cow. It is currently being asked to subsidise the thing that will cut its legs off, a Hundred that provides no players, no pathway, no midsummer stage in return.
The ECB’s chosen buyer-locator is the Raine Group, whose last job in English football was introducing Chelsea to Todd Boehly. These people are not always benevolent actors.
What will be the role of, say Kent CCC, in 10 years’ time? English cricket has a lot of money and a lot of debt. Where will this new money go?
Has the self interest of players, agents, broadcasters and all interested parties with a platform been excluded from consideration of the merits or otherwise of this course of action?
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,622
All these sports ....... cricket, snooker, football, rugby, golf ........... you know, they got on just fine, for decade or centuries before big foreign (or otherwise) investors came in and bought them, monetised them, celebritised their practitioners, offshored them to the middle east, made them exclusive.
They just existed because people loved them. They weren't massively profitable, but that was fine. They were sustainable.
They just existed because people loved them. They weren't massively profitable, but that was fine. They were sustainable.
Meanwhile, the big news from cricket in the United States just keeps on coming.
Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league.
It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.
Seems like some players are picking the USA over the hundred
Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league.
It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.
Seems like some players are picking the USA over the hundred