- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
According to FIFA, a referee is only required to blow to signal a free kick may be taken if he's had to sort out the distance of a defensive wall. So no whistle was necessary yesterday.
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It WAS a pen
- Thread starter Husty
- Start date
According to FIFA, a referee is only required to blow to signal a free kick may be taken if he's had to sort out the distance of a defensive wall. So no whistle was necessary yesterday.
No, he was inferring that the ref was correct in giving a pen, even if the kick hadn't been taken to restart the game.
Sheebo
Well-known member
- Jul 13, 2003
- 29,319
So should it have been a pen or not? I must admit (slightly bigging myself up here) but I was saying why the f*** is it a pen. Everyone around me seemed to accept it and not even debate whether it should have been a pen. I don't think I've seen a pen given before like that I must admit.
If it's a goal kick and a defender nutted a striker in the box as they're running out I can't imagine that being given as a pen.
Gus certainly thought it was no pen.
How are we gonna get a def answer on this? Cos if the ref has made a disgraceful blunder we should let them know about it...
If it's a goal kick and a defender nutted a striker in the box as they're running out I can't imagine that being given as a pen.
Gus certainly thought it was no pen.
How are we gonna get a def answer on this? Cos if the ref has made a disgraceful blunder we should let them know about it...
withdeanwombat
Well-known member
The Albion are defending a free kick on the edge of the area.The ref blows his whistle,activating the game(sic).Dicker immediately charges forward,and before the opposition kick the ball,he punts it upfield to Murray who rounds the keeper and scores.
Goal to the Albion ?
No,Dicker is booked for encroachment and the free kick is set up again,BECAUSE THE BALL WAS DEAD UNTIL THE KICK WAS TAKEN.
Goal to the Albion ?
No,Dicker is booked for encroachment and the free kick is set up again,BECAUSE THE BALL WAS DEAD UNTIL THE KICK WAS TAKEN.
The Albion are defending a freee kick on the edge of the area.
Dicker will not retreat 10 yards despite the referee repeatedly telling him to do so.
Dicker is booked EVEN THOUGH THE BALL WAS DEAD BECAUSE THE GAME WAS IN PLAY
It doesn't matter one jot what is going on with the ball, if the game is in play the game is in play and therefore a penalty.
The only question is whether the game was in play, not the ball. This is dependant on whether the ref had blown for the free kick to be taken.
He obviously knows what he has done and by the evidence that he gave the penalty, he must have believed he had done so. Which, unless you're a conspiracy theorist, is probably what happened. Ref blew for the free kick, game in play, punch, penalty.
Either way, it's gone, move on.
Dicker will not retreat 10 yards despite the referee repeatedly telling him to do so.
Dicker is booked EVEN THOUGH THE BALL WAS DEAD BECAUSE THE GAME WAS IN PLAY
It doesn't matter one jot what is going on with the ball, if the game is in play the game is in play and therefore a penalty.
The only question is whether the game was in play, not the ball. This is dependant on whether the ref had blown for the free kick to be taken.
He obviously knows what he has done and by the evidence that he gave the penalty, he must have believed he had done so. Which, unless you're a conspiracy theorist, is probably what happened. Ref blew for the free kick, game in play, punch, penalty.
Either way, it's gone, move on.
No because it is still encroachment, ie you have to be 10yrds from the ball when it is kicked.
Anyone who watched the football league show and believed what Claridge said just because it's Steve Claridge needs their head examined. Having checked out the referee's association forum they think what he said is cock.
Fact is a penalty can only be given when the ball is in play as per the laws of the game on Fifa.com. A penalty can only be awarded when the ball is in play, as per the rules of the game on Fifa.com. It has bugger all to do with the referee blowing his whistle and some fantasy about the game being active. I would suggest that is some cock and bull story a ref gave claridge to cover up his mistake.
The only problem is that BBC didn't capture the actual incident so it is difficult to be 100% certain that the ball had been kicked and exactly what Greer did to their crybaby No.9!
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
Doesn't answer the argument at all, because as has been said a million times now, nobody is disputing the red card for the punch/push/elbow/whatever it was supposed to be (I didn't see it). That is a red card whether the ball is moving or waiting to be kicked, and whether the whistle has gone or not. For the same reason an opponent could be sent off before a game has started, but that doesn't mean it then starts with a free kick to your side.
The issue of the award of a penalty is what is in dispute because of the timing of the award and the question of whether the game is on when the whistle goes or the ball is kicked.
Given that the referee is not required to blow a whistle for such a free kick- he only has to do that if it's a penalty or if it's a free kick where the distance of a defensive wall from the ball has to be measured out, then how could you use the blowing of a whistle as a sign the game is running?
For what it's worth, I don't even have a clue if the offence occurred before or after the free kick was taken, as I know the ball was sent in at some stage but by that point all hell had broken loose.
I'm just intrigued by the legislation and the argument surrounding it, that's all. It's gone, we move on, but I would be interested to find a definitive answer as even having posted the regulations on the other thread, I'm still not 100% convinced either way.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
From the Referee's Association forum:
Someone please, PLEASE stop Steve Claridge talking out of his arse. Apparently, once the referee has blown his whistle to indicate a free kick may be taken, play is active. I mean, it's nice when the pundits actually side with the referee for once (in this case trying to justify the referee giving a penalty against Brighton due to an incident in the box as the kick was being taken), but preferably it shouldn't be just because they don't have a bloody clue about the Laws of the Game. Not a terrible idea though; might well cut out some of the messing about prior to a free kick being taken, knowing they'll get (at most) nothing more than a finger-wagging and a stern word from the ref.
I guess he's saying that morally, the decision was OK, but technically, it was wrong
Someone please, PLEASE stop Steve Claridge talking out of his arse. Apparently, once the referee has blown his whistle to indicate a free kick may be taken, play is active. I mean, it's nice when the pundits actually side with the referee for once (in this case trying to justify the referee giving a penalty against Brighton due to an incident in the box as the kick was being taken), but preferably it shouldn't be just because they don't have a bloody clue about the Laws of the Game. Not a terrible idea though; might well cut out some of the messing about prior to a free kick being taken, knowing they'll get (at most) nothing more than a finger-wagging and a stern word from the ref.
I guess he's saying that morally, the decision was OK, but technically, it was wrong
Brighton Breezy
New member
It might have been a penalty, but it definitely WASN'T a free-kick for their second goal.
OK, it wasn't a penalty then, because a referee who is required to know the laws of the game inside and out and who made the decision to give the penalty is clearly wrong, he had a moment of madness and decided unilaterally to ignore all of his training and the rules of football because he doesn't like blue and white stripes.
Equally, a football pundit who has played at the top level and managed also doesn't know what he is talking about because he doesn't like your club either.
Most of you however are right because your amateur sleuthing of rules and regulations has you so sure that you're emailing the BBC demanding Claridge's head on a stake.
I'm convinced, I am going to write to the FA to demand that all 3 points are given to Brighton.
Equally, a football pundit who has played at the top level and managed also doesn't know what he is talking about because he doesn't like your club either.
Most of you however are right because your amateur sleuthing of rules and regulations has you so sure that you're emailing the BBC demanding Claridge's head on a stake.
I'm convinced, I am going to write to the FA to demand that all 3 points are given to Brighton.
Joe Gatting's Dad
New member
Until the ball is in play, it could not have been a penalty.
The referee only has to indicate that a free kick may be taken; he does not have to blow his whistle, unless he has previously indicated that the kick may not be taken until he has.
If the ball had been kicked before the push/punch, then the penalty would have been the correct decision.
Was the referee going to talk to the two players as Elding clearly went into the box in an aggressive manner and saw the retaliation, by which time the ball may well have been on its way?
Any referee worth his weight in salt, would have shown the red card and then ordered the free kick to be re-taken as he could not have been certain of the actual course of events.
The referee only has to indicate that a free kick may be taken; he does not have to blow his whistle, unless he has previously indicated that the kick may not be taken until he has.
If the ball had been kicked before the push/punch, then the penalty would have been the correct decision.
Was the referee going to talk to the two players as Elding clearly went into the box in an aggressive manner and saw the retaliation, by which time the ball may well have been on its way?
Any referee worth his weight in salt, would have shown the red card and then ordered the free kick to be re-taken as he could not have been certain of the actual course of events.
Sheebo
Well-known member
- Jul 13, 2003
- 29,319
I really feel we've been robbed for sure. Also not excusing Greer's shoulder barge (as it looked) but that Elding was a complete prick and went straight up to Greer and was shoving him etc
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
Yes, because we are questioning a decision or trying to find out what the rules are automatically means we believe there's a conspiracy against the Albion or the referee made his call based on some malevolent witch hunt against the club. FFS
Or maybe I just want to know the answer to a perfectly reasonable question? We didn't win the game because we didn't take the chances when we had them, because our keeper screwed up late on, because our captain decided to get involved in something daft and because we twice threw away the lead.
But you know what, I'm sure you're entirely right, whoever you are. Must be a lovely view from your high horse. There are a few goons on here who actually do believe referees deliberately set out to stitch players/teams up: I'm not one of them and nor are plenty of others, and I like to believe that even when officials make mistakes, firstly they are honest ones, and secondly, they probably make half the number of mistakes players do. So please, spare us the self-righteous drivel. :blah:
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
We haven't been robbed, don't kid yourself.
Elding may well be a prick (I have no idea as I wasn't watching what happened) but until they add an amendment to the direct free kick offences list that reads "a player who strikes or attempts to strike an opponent shall not be penalised if the opponent is a complete prick/a gobby Scouser/a fat little wind up merchant/saying nasty things about his Mum/is Scott McGleish", then our idiot footballers are just going to have to learn to control themselves.
blue and white army
New member
Can I throw a scenario into the mix-up. Say the free-kick was in the same place, but instead of Greer klumping the player, Murray gets done by the Rochdale keeper inside their box after the referee has blown for the free-kick. Would a penalty be given in our favour?
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
Well by the logic of yesterday's decision, yes.
My only query about this debate is whether the referee honestly believed that the free kick HAD been taken when he blew for the infringement by Greer. Because it was kicked at some point wasn't it, and we're talking a fraction of a second here? Maybe, just maybe, he honestly thought it had been taken, in which case this entire argument is irrelevant.
I do wish sometimes they would just come out and explain themselves, because if that was the case, then at least we'd know.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Did anyone else feel that we should have been given a pen when Painter was shoved over in the first half?
¡Cereal Killer!
Whale Oil Beef Hooked
I think the fa should make a statement on whether the ref was right or wrong.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,645
Nah, he made too much of it I think. When your arms go up like that it puts referees off (especially since some boffin claimed a while back that he could show when a player had dived by various physical signs, one of which was the arms flinging into the air and another was that the fingers are spread out).
Steve Clarridge (excuse spelling) tried to justify the refs decisions last night on the football league show. The problem with his attempt to do so was that it was not caught on camera so he cannot say that it was right to give a penalty because he could not see the when the incident took place in regards to the ref blowing his whistle. Also personaly it looked to me as if the ref blew his whistle as he was running over to sort things out which surely means the ball was not in play.