Is Wayne Rooney World class?

[wallyback]

When Rooney first burst on the scene he had that gascoigne element of invention and surprise, and was prepared to take players on.

It seems to me that it has been drilled into him that dribbling and taking people on is not the way to go. Where before he might do something special, now he passes the ball.

The modern game is all about passing and keeping possession, when over done this can knock the flair and invention out of some players.

Rooney is still one of our best players, but he has lost that certain something that makes him special.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Without looking on Google I'm fairly sure Messi hasn't had a decent international tournament. Does that mean he is not world class?

He has routinely played very well at the business end of the Champions League though. I don't recall Rooney doing this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"the big man is back in town"

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Then I believe Rooney to be World class then based on his overall career rather than tonight and this tournament.

Which tournament are you referring to then?

 

[El Presidente]

When was the last time he had a game changing match for England ? 2004 I reckon

....and even then it was against Switzerland and Croatia, not the top teams. He has never scored against one of the better opponents. He is better than the alternatives that England have, but look at the lack of choices. Carroll, Defoe, Bent, Crouch?

Italy are a shadow of the team that won the World Cup in 2006, but looked light years ahead of us yesterday.

For all of the 100 mph excitement of English football, we should shirley now have to accept that we are in the wilderness in terms of player development.

I know when I mentioned it before I was slaughtered, but we have a quarter of the number of coaches who are qualified compared to Spain and Germany. Teaching kids the right things at an early age, so that possession and passing are second nature before they become adults is the only way forwards IMO. Our football is based on the premise that if you make a shit pass your opponent will do the same, so losing the ball is not seen as too much of an issue.

We were given the runaround by a 33 year old Iggy Pop lookalike whose legs have gone, it was embarrassing.

 

[Seagull58]

Rooney effortlessly recreated his form from the 2010 World Cup.
If Carroll is the best we have up front then the situation really is dire. He's a big ungainly donkey. Crouch looks world class compared to Carroll and would've done a much better job.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

World class means having the ability to influence games at World level. This means the world cup followed by the euros in order of importance.
Wayne Rooney is not world class. He wasn't in 2004 and he isn't now. He is a good club player, thats it, no more. Too many fans in this country can't seem to distinguish between club football and international football. There is a difference. INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL IS BETTER!!!!!
The best players, technically, from each nation, playing together.Throw in bucketloads of national pride and top coaches and there is the mix.
Posters on here have been making excuses for Rooney..not match fit etc...COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE...HE AIN'T GOOD ENOUGH.
Please please please stop this ' world class ' crap...anyone coming out with these sort of comments are letting themselves down and showing an ignorance about the game. Give the very few world class players around the credit they deserve and let Mr Rooney ' flat track bully ' average club players, until he retires, a very rich and lucky man.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Mr Rooney is following in Mr Beckham's footsteps as a classic example of an English player being built up as some sort of footballing genius by all and sundry, based upon a few flashes of brilliance many years ago.

El Pres is spot on re player development and the signs have been there for years. How many English players are playing for the top Prem teams? How long has it been like this? Far too long. We say it after every tournament - "must get our kids coached decent technique etc etc" but we never will. Certainly not when someone like Big Sam was seriously considered for the England post a few years ago.

We will just have to wait 20 odd years until Gus has trained the entire youth of Sussex to play with decent technique!

 

[vegster]

No, good club player but never pushed on for England

 

[fleet]

At these finals he was rubbish. We were better when he was suspended. Simply not consistent enough to be world class.

 

[big nuts]

Which tournament are you referring to then?

Mainly form at club level and a more than decent scoring record for his country.

 

[Seagull58]

Mainly form at club level and a more than decent scoring record for his country.

Crouch has a better scoring record for England; 22 goals in 42 games. Say no more.

 

[Simster]

I know when I mentioned it before I was slaughtered, but we have a quarter of the number of coaches who are qualified compared to Spain and Germany. Teaching kids the right things at an early age, so that possession and passing are second nature before they become adults is the only way forwards IMO.

I might have been the one slaughtering you if you'd said that, because you're wrong. It's not a quarter, its a TENTH.

As if any of this is a secret. The FA commissioned a report by Howard Wilkinson to find out why we are so poor, and he told then all of this. The FA have continued to ignore him and his report.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Mainly form at club level and a more than decent scoring record for his country.

My definition said "biggest stages." and by this I mean the big games, the business end of tournaments. It's one thing knocking in goals in the qualifying periods against myriad lesser champions league teams and nations but when it comes to having to deliver in the big games where the teams are better and the pressure is on he chokes. Messi has delivered in Champions League semis and finals; Ronaldo took his nation to the semis last weekend, Pirlo last night. The real talent step up the plate and deliver when the stakes are high and the pressure is on. Rooney is a great club player but he has repeatedly demonstrated he cannot make that final step.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

....and even then it was against Switzerland and Croatia, not the top teams. He has never scored against one of the better opponents. He is better than the alternatives that England have, but look at the lack of choices. Carroll, Defoe, Bent, Crouch?

Italy are a shadow of the team that won the World Cup in 2006, but looked light years ahead of us yesterday.

For all of the 100 mph excitement of English football, we should shirley now have to accept that we are in the wilderness in terms of player development.

I know when I mentioned it before I was slaughtered, but we have a quarter of the number of coaches who are qualified compared to Spain and Germany. Teaching kids the right things at an early age, so that possession and passing are second nature before they become adults is the only way forwards IMO. Our football is based on the premise that if you make a shit pass your opponent will do the same, so losing the ball is not seen as too much of an issue.

We were given the runaround by a 33 year old Iggy Pop lookalike whose legs have gone, it was embarrassing.

Well said.
We are technically inept in this country. Our players have been declining in technical ability for 15 years and it is getting progressively worse. To watch England players unable to control, hold and pass the ball to a member of their own side is painful. These are the basics of the game ffs. We can all see it but the football authorities are not prepared to rip up their own blueprint for the game.
Watching 6-7-8 year old kids chasing around like headless chickens, with crowds of parents bawling at them from the touchlines is sickening. It is the worst possible preparation for learning the game. For years kids learnt the basics of the game in the streets and in the playgrounds. Trapping and killing a tennis ball with one touch was essential. You learnt to shield the ball and some boys developed the ability to dribble effortlessly past opponents. Organised football started at around 11 years of age. By then kids were confident on the ball and they had learnt the basics. They didn't have the pressure of parents and coaches drumming garbage into them. Nowadays, there seems to be a headlong rush to try and get kids organised as young as possible, without any thought to pace of development.
I know you can't turn the clock back to the days of street and playground football but somehow we have got to start re-creating that environment.
Many years ago a young boy in Belfast used to go and watch his mum play hockey. Whilst the game was in progress, he would dribble a tennis ball up the touchlines, round the corner flags and back. He would practise trapping and controlling the ball and if he found a willing accomplice, then they would pass to each other until the sun went down.
Not everyone will grow up to be George Best. All we are asking is that our kids are given the opportunity to master the basics of the game.
Thats the starting point.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The FA commissioned a report by Howard Wilkinson to find out why we are so poor, and he told then all of this. The FA have continued to ignore him and his report.

The FA are not in a position to impose anything though. Three bodies control schoolboy/youth football in this country and each is pulling in a different direction. There is no single strategy or plan like in other nations. The FA are not in any position to tell Prem clubs what to do and Scudamore has publicly stated that the national team is not his, or his members, concern.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Further, I have been telling people of the problems for over a decade now, and getting a lot of abuse for it as well. And we have this familiar debrief after every tournament but nothing changes. If you're as patriotic as you think you are you should totally dismiss this rubbish and demand better. Blindly supporting this crap doesn't change a thing; absolute rejection of it will.

 

[big nuts]

My definition said "biggest stages." and by this I mean the big games, the business end of tournaments. It's one thing knocking in goals in the qualifying periods against myriad lesser champions league teams and nations but when it comes to having to deliver in the big games where the teams are better and the pressure is on he chokes. Messi has delivered in Champions League semis and finals; Ronaldo took his nation to the semis last weekend, Pirlo last night. The real talent step up the plate and deliver when the stakes are high and the pressure is on. Rooney is a great club player but he has repeatedly demonstrated he cannot make that final step.

So by your definition is Glen Johnson closer to being World class than Wayne Rooney?

A team with 32% possession is rarely going to give it's strikers enough service to be truly effective and get into the game. I would class Champions league football above the European Championships in terms of quality and his scoring record in that is very good.

 

[BadFish]

....and even then it was against Switzerland and Croatia, not the top teams. He has never scored against one of the better opponents. He is better than the alternatives that England have, but look at the lack of choices. Carroll, Defoe, Bent, Crouch?

Italy are a shadow of the team that won the World Cup in 2006, but looked light years ahead of us yesterday.

For all of the 100 mph excitement of English football, we should shirley now have to accept that we are in the wilderness in terms of player development.

I know when I mentioned it before I was slaughtered, but we have a quarter of the number of coaches who are qualified compared to Spain and Germany. Teaching kids the right things at an early age, so that possession and passing are second nature before they become adults is the only way forwards IMO. Our football is based on the premise that if you make a shit pass your opponent will do the same, so losing the ball is not seen as too much of an issue.

We were given the runaround by a 33 year old Iggy Pop lookalike whose legs have gone, it was embarrassing.

The stuff about coaching is spot on and has been the same for years. As i have sais on many threads we are not going to get any better without wholeasale changes from the top down. The FA are compromised by the Premier League and need to wrestle back the power and make some decisions to enable quality in the national team. Otherwise we will remain a laughing stock, ironically it seemed that the further we got through the tournament the more embarassing it got. Imagine if we had somehow won the thing playing like that. Would we be up there with Spain and Germany in terms of footballing respect or would we have been likened to Greece?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So by your definition is Glen Johnson closer to being World class than Wayne Rooney?

Not really, he performed well at this single tournament but this is all.

A team with 32% possession is rarely going to give it's strikers enough service to be truly effective and get into the game. I would class Champions league football above the European Championships in terms of quality and his scoring record in that is very good.

His scoring record in the group stage and the initial knockout stage maybe good but for the last time I am talking about the business end, the semis and the finals, where you rely on your big players to step up to the plate. This is where we see the likes of Klose, Gomez, Schewiensteiger, Pirlo, Ronaldo and Messi really shine and dominate and win games. For whatever reason he has not done this. And maybe it is the players around him that are shackling his true brilliance but without any evidence you cannot lay any claim to greatness. We can all say we are brilliant and blame the nobbers around us for holding us back. Truly good people blame no one though.