Is this season's promoted side really THAT much weaker than the 2002 team?

[Safeway]

2002 Championship winning side:

                 Kuipers

Watson      Cullip        Morgan     Mayo

Hart       Carpenter    Lewis       Brooker

               Steele      Zamora

2004 promoted team:

                Roberts

Virgo     Cullip          Butters      Harding

Hart   Carpenter     Oatway        Jones

           Iwelumo      Knight

Looking at those two sides the only noticeable weakness from the 2002 team is Charlie Oatway, who is never going to make it in Division One. Even then there's the option of either Reid or Piercey taking his place, both far better players. The only other position you could argue is weaker now is the left side of midfield.

Both the current full backs are, IMHO, better than the formers (and younger, and homegrown). Roberts is better than Kuipers and Butters' performances have made sure we haven't missed Simon Morgan (or Blackwell). Knight has replaced Bobby in the goal-scoring stakes and to be quite honest I could do a better job than Lee Steele.

Add the facts that we played the first quarter of the previous Division One campaign with players that are now at the likes of Crawley and Weymouth, Bobby missed nearly a third of it through injury and that we had an utter CLOWN in charge for the first twelve games and I think we don't have THAT much to worry about going into next season.

Obviously the squad needs strengthening in areas but I don't believe we need the mass clearout that some are clamouring for.

Thoughts?

 

[Marshy]

Have to disagree i think. With Zamora and Brooker in the line up the old side was stronger.

However we have a chance to bring a few faces in so hopefully i will be changing my mind in due course.

 

[Wozza]

Class of '02 was waaaay better IMO.

No complaints about Butters but Morgan was awesome, Steele was good in Div 2 (remember Bristol at home?), Zamora was more reliable than Knight, Brooker better than Jones, Lewis on a different planet to Oatway etc etc.

That squad was good enough to win a very competitive championship by a distance. The current squad scraped though in a crap year.

That doesn't mean that next season's team won't be better than Hinsh's Div 1 side though. It HAS to be.

(Nice use of the Code feature, BTW)

 

[Simster]

We're nowhere near as good as we were in 2002. I think the only weak links in 2002 were Mayo (always has been short of pace) and Steele (good player on his day but often easily outmuscled). Nowadays we're generally weaker in all areas.

But we'll finish higher up the league than last time round, and I really think McGhee will improve the squad anyway.

 

[Safeway]

Class of '02 was waaaay better IMO.

That squad was good enough to win a very competitive championship by a distance. The current squad scraped though in a crap year.

That doesn't mean that next season's team won't be better than Hinsh's Div 1 side though. It HAS to be.

(Nice use of the Code feature, BTW)

Can't argue with any of that. I s'pose the point I'm trying to make is that we're going into Division One better prapared than two years ago.

Not saying the current side is better than the Championship team, no way. Some of the football played then was actually a pleasure to watch (not like this season: punt, stampede up the pitch, concede goal kick).

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

But Morgan didn't come with us into Division One. Take Morgan out of the line-ups and they look a bit more even.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I think it was the fact that we had the likes of Ingmarrson, Sidwell, Blackwell, Rodgers during that season that makes us think we do really need to strengthen.

Hunt from Brentford would be nice

 

[Bwian]

Can't argue with any of that. I s'pose the point I'm trying to make is that we're going into Division One better prapared than two years ago.

That's the key point...we KNOW what needs to be done at the start of next season. Last time we gave everybody a 12 game start.

Personally, I think we're a little weaker than 2002 but it won't take much to reverse that-especially as there will be loads of seasoned pros looking for a game in Division 1.

Regardless-I'm just going to enjoy the ride again!

 

[Brixton Seagull 2]

You've got to say Brooker and Bobby made the side much stronger, but It's a bit misleading because for the first half of the next season, our line up had more of these names in: Harding, Butters (the full-fat variety), Hammond, Wilkinson, Marney, McPhee, Hinshelwood, with both Mayo and Watson having stinkers.

I think our current side if we can keep injuries to a minimum, replace Butters with Virgo and bring in El-Abd at right back, replace Oatway with a spanking new attacking midfielder (or Reid), and I reckon we'll do ok.

 

[ripper]

Can't argue with any of that. I s'pose the point I'm trying to make is that we're going into Division One better prapared than two years ago.

I agree. We will definately be better prepared in the coming season. Just the fact that we were there recently and now know what to expect. I think that has come out in the way the team has handled itself in the playoff run in this season too (not the prettiest football, but having the confidence to do the job). Also this time we have a manager that I believe can keep us up.

 

[Lammy]

I've got to say I love the look of our defence!

I think we need to get a replacement for Oatway, Alough I'd still want to keep hold of him for those man marking roles against players like Merson. I don't think Iwelumo is up to Div 1 but again a good man to have on the bench.

Roberts will be back in the side don't forget but it will be interesting to see how he gets on after the injury. Don't forget we're not going to set the world on fire next season it is all about holding on to our Div 1 status. To do that we'll need a rock solid defence! Which we now have.

 

[Seagull over NZ]

The advantage we have now is that we have a settled side with a settled manager who knows what he is doing. Remember we lost Peter taylor and had no direction when Hinshelwood took over.

Although Knight has taken over the goalscoring prowess that Zamora had, I think Zamora was still a better all round player, at the moment anyway.

I think we will see more of the same next year. We will be hard to beat because we will be defensively quite sound. McGhee will look to make a few sound acquisitions though.

 

[Gwylan]

I was really fearful last time we went up (for good reason) but I'm not this time.

There are many reasons for this.

1) The team that got us promoted in 2002 was not the same that started in Division 1. The loss of Morgan and Lewis made a big difference.

And I don't think we won it by 'some distance' we won it because we stopped losing while Reading collapsed. Great mental strength, yes, but I think there are some blue-tinted specs on. We weren't another Brazil, in fact, I can remember people moaning about Taylor grinding out results. I think this team is even better organised and much fitter (and has kept its mental strength).

2) We won't have a clown in charge this time

3) The players know what to expect. Cullip had a really poor start to the Div 1 campaign and the side look to him for leadership. I bet he won't be crap again.

4) We were unlucky last time round. We had a lot of injuries at the start and some rough decisions against us. These things normally even out in time, but they didn't that year (although we had been ridden our luck the previous year, so perhaps that was fate evening out).

5) Our young players are now much better and more experienced

6) McGhee is talking about new signings. We had none in the close season last time round.

I really reckon we'll do OK.

 

[Albion Rob]

I think the players have improved as individuals since 2002. I remember how much we used to miss Zamora when he was injured and how we would expect to lose. I don't feel like that now as I feel we could get results if Leon got injured.

To put it another way, I fully expect us to pick up three or four points when Leon serves his ban. When Bobby got injured in 2002 we lost all the games he missed.

We could also do without playing teams like Crawley in pre season and start playing lower league sides away instead.

McGhee did a lot of good at Millwall on a budget of a similar size, so here's hoping.

 

[saltash seagull]

but the side we finished div 2 with was stronger than the 1 that started div1

kuipers

watson pethick culip mayo

hart carpenter oatway brooker

zamora wilkinson

i would have said the defence was a lot stronger now 2 strong centre half's and full backs that can defend and with an addition in the midfield stengthening wide on the left and iwelumo and 1 other up front we will look a much stronger proposition than 2 years ago.
as danny as fantastic as he was 2 years ago(got stronger as the season went on) has had 1 season at div 1 level and is a better defender with 2 years more experience and the squad in general is much more experienced at div1 level with the fdm,roberts,watto,mayo,butters,blackwell,culip,virgo,hart,jones,chippy,oatway,knight(at sheff wed),rodger,iwelumo(at stoke) and reid(at bradford) all have div 1 experience.even harding,piercy,mcphee and mcphee apperared during the season while 2 years ago only pethick had played there before.
on top of that we've got a proven manager with div 1 experenice who iv got every faith in and 1 that wont give every 1 a 12 game start on us.

 

[Comedy Steve]

Can I just point out how we are infinitely better.

2002 Championship winning side:

Manager(to be) : Martin Hinshlewood

2004 promoted team:

Manager : Mark McGhee

Much better this time around!

 

[chips and gravy]

Now that we have made it, we'll not squander the opportunity this time around. A few solid players will be signed by McGhee much in the same way that Coppell did. Using the loan system to its best advantage will also be key.

We'll finish in the bottom 8, but I think we can win the necessary 12-15 games and scrape enough draws to stay up. We almost did last time, despite the 12 game losing run!

 

[London Calling]

Generally agree with the above sentiments.

Last time around showed that the squad will need strenghening with DIVISION 1 players.

But McGhee does not stimulate attractive football. I expect us to bore sides to draws and defeats.

However a lot of DIV 1 sides play it the same way. How many sides in the first 12 games got a result out of us by only grabbing their one or two shooting chances of the game. If I recall even Sheff Utd only had five shots in that 4-2 debacle.

 

[kalinski]

the main point though do we look like a side that will lose 14 matches in a row this time?

 

[CHAPPERS]

We are a better side now than we were then. Defensively we are rock solid with a great mix of youth and experience, the midfield needs a bit of work but McGhee is the right man to do it. Attacking wise I think we will be stronger if we sign Lumo up, we'll have a proper partnership up there and won't be relying on one player to score for us..

Another advantage is that the players will know exactly what to expect and they'll be bang up for it after fighting so hard for a place in the first this season.

We will stay up.