Is there anyway back for Labour?

[hart's shirt]

Capitalism, is a brutal, evil system.

As a small business owner that continues to provide a decent salary, 6 weeks annual paid holiday, accommodation allowance, benefits, and a fulfilling career to a growing number of people (8 at present), I would respectfully disagree with this.

More to the point, I'm pretty sure my employees would too.

 

[User removed 4]

As a small business owner that continues to provide a decent salary, 6 weeks annual paid holiday, accommodation allowance, benefits, and a fulfilling career to a growing number of people (8 at present), I would respectfully disagree with this.

More to the point, I'm pretty sure my employees would too.

good post.

 

[Lord Large]

Plenty of time for New Labour to pull things round.

When push comes to shove people might be less willing to pin their colours to the tory mast as they are in the polls.

 

[Franks Wild Years]

As a small business owner that continues to provide a decent salary, 6 weeks annual paid holiday, accommodation allowance, benefits, and a fulfilling career to a growing number of people (8 at present), I would respectfully disagree with this.

More to the point, I'm pretty sure my employees would too.

Presumably your business is fairly recession proof Harty ? I mean it not like people put off dying until the economy perks up a bit.
No matter how grave the situation you'll never find yourself saying "You know what Mrs Harty ? business is dead.)

 

[Lord Large]

Presumably your business is fairly recession proof Harty ? I mean it not like people put off dying until the economy perks up a bit.
No matter how grave the situation you'll never find yourself saying "You know what Mrs Harty ? business is dead.)

If anything he will do better out of it. People have less money for heating and eating healthily...

 

[User removed 4]

Plenty of time for New Labour to pull things round.

When push comes to shove people might be less willing to pin their colours to the tory mast as they are in the polls.

smacks of desparation

 

[DTES]

Plenty of time for New Labour to pull things round.

When push comes to shove people might be less willing to pin their colours to the tory mast as they are in the polls.

Actually, I think it's more likely to be the other way round. There are probably plenty of people out there who will vote Tory when it's anonymous, but wouldn't dream of admitting it to a pollster.

(No, that doesn't include me )

 

[hart's shirt]

Presumably your business is fairly recession proof Harty ? I mean it not like people put off dying until the economy perks up a bit.
No matter how grave the situation you'll never find yourself saying "You know what Mrs Harty ? business is dead.)

I'm not Ian Hart, btw.

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I'm not Ian Hart, btw.

Sorry didn't mean to imply that you were. My mistake.

 

[bullshit detector]

As a small business owner that continues to provide a decent salary, 6 weeks annual paid holiday, accommodation allowance, benefits, and a fulfilling career to a growing number of people (8 at present), I would respectfully disagree with this.

More to the point, I'm pretty sure my employees would too.

Good on you, HS. If the majority were like you, there wouldn't be a problem. But for every you, there's a profiteering, evil bastard - and by the nature of capitalism, most of them end up at the top of the pile, because the most ruthless are the ones who get on. Hence Archer, and hence the City dealers laughing and flaunting their wealth while the rest of us worry what's going to happen to our futures and our families.

In exactly the same way that during my time in Eastern Europe before 1989 I met many decent, honourable, hard working people utterly committed to the cause of socialism - but the were also self seeking bastards who used the system for their own ends.

 

[hart's shirt]

Good on you, HS. If the majority were like you, there wouldn't be a problem. But for every you, there's a profiteering, evil bastard - and by the nature of capitalism, most of them end up at the top of the pile, because the most ruthless are the ones who get on. Hence Archer, and hence the City dealers laughing and flaunting their wealth while the rest of us worry what's going to happen to our futures and our families.

In exactly the same way that during my time in Eastern Europe before 1989 I met many decent, honourable, hard working people utterly committed to the cause of socialism - but the were also self seeking bastards who used the system for their own ends.

Thanks for elaborating - we're in agreement now!

I'm trying to run a business based on 'compassionate capitalism', if that doesn't sound either too corny or unrealistic. A number of my staff I've known as friends before employing them - whilst some things obviously change, I'm pretty much the same person around them as before. When it comes to the workplace, one doesn't need to leave one's personality in the parking lot!

I do feel very responsible for all of them in some way, as ultimately they (and their families and children) depend on my business for a livelihood. I've built the business up from nothing and I have 100% ownership of it - but I know that it needs to 'belong' to them for the good of the company. The more that's given to the employees and the more empowerment and decision-making that they have in their jobs, the more I ultimately have - and not just in financial terms.

If it's any consolation as far as Archer is concerned, there are no pockets in shrouds. A man or woman makes a living by what they get, but they make a legacy by what they give.

I think we all know what Archer's legacy is likely to be as far as the Albion is concerned.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the above statement shows that you have absolutely no f***ing idea what you are on about you're saying the US cant lower rates any more ?? , the japs had 0% in the nineties, in fact they effectively paid people to borrow, plenty of money for nationalisations ?? the pot is empty , they have spunked it all , what the f*** is it going to take for you to understand this ?? you are spouting absolute bollocks about something you know nothing about.

I stand by my statement in that the interest rates in the US are about as low as they can go. Obviously they can go to zero but the US will not do this. I bet they dont drop much over the next 6 months.

The UK interest rates have a bit of slack in them as they are probably higher than they need to be at the moment.

The government are in a good position to find money for nationalisations as they are proving at the moment.

...also. Can you post in a less aggressive manner.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the above statement shows that you have absolutely no f***ing idea what you are on about you're saying the US cant lower rates any more ?? , the japs had 0% in the nineties, in fact they effectively paid people to borrow, plenty of money for nationalisations ?? the pot is empty , they have spunked it all , what the f*** is it going to take for you to understand this ?? you are spouting absolute bollocks about something you know nothing about.

I also understand you work in the financial industry. So this makes you probably the least qualified to talk about the current problems

 

[NMH]

Having lived through my formative teenage years under the Tories, do people really think it will be any better under the next generation of the Conservative Party?
My big fear is that the election will be such a landslide that the Labour and Lib Dems will be all but wiped out, which will leave us with a one party state, in other words a dictatorship.
Can anyone see that not happening in the current climate?

Sorry, that's just really very ott, silly even.
For anyone who has lived through a couple of governments, they should know that each one will ultimately be vilified by the public, and the opposing party come election time. No party will ever gain full trust (I don't trust the tories in the slightest)
Labour has been ridiculed relentlessly of late, every time some civil servant stupidly loses a disc or a dongle with security-sensitive information on it. Because we did not LIVE in a time where all this data could be put on a single tiny item - nobody could lose a whole filing system with that information, but now the equivalent is on a keyring!
So, the tories would - and probably already do - lose private information on laptops and DVDs, but they aren't the incumbent party so it doesn't get a headline as their responsibility.
Gordon Brown and Labour are not, actually, the reason things got stolen or lost - but it works for the headlines to insinuate that they are culpable.

Every policy that is instated, is not bad or the idea of the opposing party - but it WORKS to say it is. So, the incumbent government is subject to scrutiny whether they put in a fantastic policy ....or a mediocre one or a poor one. The media might NOT decide to scrutinize everything....but when they don't, Cameron WILL and they'll report it whether it's outrageous and erroneous or even if it's insignificant.

Have you noticed when Labour introduce a smart policy, it gets a moment of acknowledgement before it's belittled as 'not enough'? Then they will be off at some tangent to berate the party for something else un-relating to the initial policy.

Brown is, actually, absolutely HORRIBLE at propaganda. He is hopeless at sniping back at the tories, he misses incredible opportunities to lay them to waste and make them shrivel in their pews. However, he apparently stated from the start, that he would avoid partisan leadership and alienation of his party. He's not into wholesale separation, like the Republicans in the USA were. That lot could cause a civil war over there, between voters of each party - and they managed to create actual war and alienation in the World too. McCain STILL advocates NOT talking to Iran as that is "too dangerous"! So what, a cold war proves a better policy than communication with leaders? Pick an enemy, tell everyone "he is my enemy", and don't communicate unless it's by threatening them? Nice, peace has no chance.

I listened to Nick Clegg to hear what he had to say, in hope that he might offer something interesting and forward-thinking, putting them up as a tangible option, a third party with power and leadership. What I heard was a brave opening statement or two, backed by political blathering and waffle that offered nothing whatsoever.
Cameron, to my ears, has offered NO alternative policy of use for consideration, and is only good at bigging himself up. Saying he's brought in women to his policies.... what does that mean?? What policies? How are they better for women, how does bringing any more women into your party as members necessarily mean much? Do tell Mr Cameron, because just saying that stuff means f***-all to me, or Britain's future. It's just a cover-all of bullshit for suckers to hear, 'nice sound-bytes'.

That we are currently in a dramatic period (and there are always going to be such periods throughout history) is something that Labour currently has to face up to. If they scramble to implement policies, then it still may not cancel out the drama - but we certainly hope that they will diminish the negative impact.
In the US, if Obama and the Democrat party gets in, they'll have massive work to do in trying to re-right the ship. They'll inherit two wars, one that was astoundingly underestimated by Bush and the Republicans - and those won't just go away. Neither will the dangers of instability and mistrust of the US from international groups. All the time there are fathers and mothers who lost kids, or kids whose parents were killed by American and UK policy or weapons, there will be people with an axe to grind and unsafe areas for any of us to go.

For advancing science in health and travel and commodities, we live in the best of times. But such are countered by worse viruses, national and international dangers, pervasive influences of our children, political and religious struggles, social paranoia and instability, overpopulation and poverty.

No best laid plans of mice or men are going to keep from going astray.

 

[NMH]

Er NO

Damn!
I wish I had said that

 

[steward 433]

Damn!
I wish I had said that

Honest and straight to the point.

I really can't see them getting that many seats at all.

After Belottis involvement with the club i hope the Lib Dems get none.

 

[User removed 4]

I stand by my statement in that the interest rates in the US are about as low as they can go. Obviously they can go to zero but the US will not do this. I bet they dont drop much over the next 6 months.

The UK interest rates have a bit of slack in them as they are probably higher than they need to be at the moment.

The government are in a good position to find money for nationalisations as they are proving at the moment.

...also. Can you post in a less aggressive manner.

apologies for the aggressive manner , i do come across as more aggressive than i mean to sound, you are being a bit vague on rates , can you give a figure for how much is " much " ?
, and what exactly do you mean by " the government is in a good position to "find" money for nationalisations ?

 

[User removed 4]

I also understand you work in the financial industry. So this makes you probably the least qualified to talk about the current problems

but you dont know what i do in the financial markets , so how can you apportion blame or question how qualified i am to talk about current problems ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

but you dont know what i do in the financial markets , so how can you apportion blame or question how qualified i am to talk about current problems ?

Apology accepted....and I had my tongue-in-my-cheek when I said people working in the financial world are currently not best placed to offer advice.

I'll get back to you on the rates thing.

 

[User removed 4]

....and I had my tongue-in-my-cheek when I said people working in the financial world are currently not best placed to offer advice.

i can see this on re-reading , i therefore don this