Is no statue safe?

[A1X]

Now, I’m not for a second commenting on the statue, but isn’t seeing the contradictions within our historic figures really interesting? The dogmatic cultural approach to Churchill in all my learning was pretty much an infallible greatest leader we ever had. But isn’t the truth far more interesting, warts and all?

This is very true, and I didn't start to get into the "warts and all" part of Churchill until doing A-level and then degree in history, long after most people have stopped paying attention. If Churchill had pegged out in 1938 he'd largely have been remembered as a blundering old duffer who royally cocked up over Gallipoli. And indeed as a peace-time politician (and Prime Minister) he was by and large a complete failure (the Gold Standard debacle being the biggest black mark on his CV).

But, in the period from early 1940 to the 1945 election he was undoubtedly the right man in the right place at the right time. And as with so much of our history, the war seems to be one of the few things people care about.

 

[vegster]

Although we don’t actually know for how many people this is an important issue. No-one has asked.

There has been some talk and debate, quite a few marches too, you obviously haven't noticed.

 

[The Clamp]

To be fair, I think plenty of people have been aware of things around Baden Powell for ages.

And it's hardly anarchy if the Local Authority have removed it. It could well be something they were anticipating anyway.

Some people who did good things (although like you I have never been a Baden Powell fan) also did bad things or had shady things in their past. Who'd have guessed it. I'm waiting for it to emerge that Mother Teresa was a serial killer...….. I hope I'm joking.

Hmm. She did have some strange practices. She let a lot of people die due to her belief that if they were ill it was God’s will. How accurate that is, I’m not sure. There is also reports of her not treating people unless they converted to Catholicism.

She certainly denied patients pain relief on the basis that there is virtue in suffering.

Who knows what the truth is but there is a lot of well documented controversy surrounding her practices .

 

[Lenny Rider]

Has General Montgomerie got a statue anywhere?

 

[Gwylan]

To be fair, I think plenty of people have been aware of things around Baden Powell for ages.

When I wanted to join the scouts, as it looked like fun, my dad put his foot down firmly and said that no son of his was joining that fascist organisation. So, yes, his dodgy past was scarcely a secret.

I'm waiting for it to emerge that Mother Teresa was a serial killer...…..

You've not seen the Christopher Hitchens documentary "Hell's Angel" then?

I must say that I'm surprised to hear so many people say that the slave trade was something that wasn't taught at school. We learned all about it and we certainly didn't have some trendy lefty teacher - those of us who went to Varndean and were taught by the Mad Axeman will know exactly what I mean

 

[darkwolf666]

I think it's as much about how we recognise slavery and define it in societies which existed BCE. Social structures were very different. Trying to map more modern definitions across needs to accept the nuances.

So a bit like football only existed once Sky got involved, we pick an arbitrary point in time to decide when wrongs were wrongs and to be punished and people demonised.

 

[Beach Seagull]

So, if when he was elected Mayor of London his first act was to put in place the removal of statues that he felt were racist... How do you think the mainstream media, especially print media, would have responded? He would have been targeted as a loony left nutter for putting statues ahead of poverty, deprevation and welfare for Londoners first.

There are always things in society that adapt or change, he is responding to peoples desire for change. Statues never used to be an issue but now a great many are viewing them in a new light.

He shouldn't care what the media would've said, if he felt strongly enough about it in 2016 he would've gone ahead and done it and made it a very symbolic first act of his tenure. I thought that's why people enter politics, to make changes, to follow their convictions. He for example could've said 'all my life I've felt really strongly about what the statues represent and as I'm now the London Mayor I'm in a position a make a change for the better.' Ok yeah maybe the Daily Mail might've been a bit critical but I'm sure the Guardian, the Independent and the BBC would've been supportive.

The removal of statues is just the latest 'in' cause and he's hopped on the bandwagon. As a poster put on here previously perhaps trying to tackle London's knife crime culture should be his priority.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

There has been some talk and debate, quite a few marches too, you obviously haven't noticed.

No need for sarcasm just because you feel uncomfortable. The talk and debate has not culminated in us being asked what we think and want, as well you know.

 

[A1X]

Has General Montgomerie got a statue anywhere?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_the_Viscount_Montgomery,_London

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Pressure on Disney to re-theme splash mountain - can’t say I’ve been on it for years - but I thought they rethemed it already?

 

[Beach Seagull]

Oh....hang on....I thought all police were racist thugs..........

They aren't.

 

[Bozza]

Pressure on Disney to re-theme splash mountain - can’t say I’ve been on it for years - but I thought they rethemed it already?

It's never been re-themed. It's based on the film Song of the South, which has many controversial racial elements.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The removal of statues is just the latest 'in' cause and he's hopped on the bandwagon. As a poster put on here previously perhaps trying to tackle London's knife crime culture should be his priority.

But whether he does or doesn't personally think the statues should be a priority, the fact of the matter is that they ARE a big current topic. Better that he takes steps to act on the obviously problematic ones (Milligan) quickly, than leave it and invite further disorder or conflict, no?

And the transparent deflection regards knife-crime, is exactly that. Is his office not allowed to focus on more than one issue at a time?

 

[Beach Seagull]

you are unaware that this has been tried before?

Yes but why not try it again? I can't think why it wasn't the first thing they tried when knife crime became an issue. It makes perfect sense to me, target those who are statistically more likely to commit knife crime.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Are you twelve?

The above post is simply my opinion. I am not bullying you, should it differ from your own

 

[Lenny Rider]

It's never been re-themed. It's based on the film Song of the South, which has many controversial racial elements.

But ironically they have all but expunged the film "Song of the South", including the classic Zippadeedoodah, from Disney History.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Childish.

It is possible, if you try really hard, to accept that some people can do good AND bad things. One might, or might not outweigh the other, but to debate it, is justified.

The above post is simply my opinion. I am not bullying you, should it differ from your own

 

[Chicken Run]

Childish.

It is possible, if you try really hard, to accept that some people can do good AND bad things. One might, or might not outweigh the other, but to debate it, is justified.

Why is his post ‘childish’?

 

[Beach Seagull]

Video circling on twitter tonight of a police officer badly beaten up by some black youths in Hackney as many others watched in laughing and recording it. It's already happening.

I wonder how the Guardian will report that? Nothing about it on the app, funny that........

 

[Beach Seagull]

I'm guessing you are being ironic, I think, no hope...!

Do explain please. Irony not the aim but a potential solution.