Is Mo Farrah the greatest ever British sportsman?

[Dougie]

2 events? 2 versions of the same event.

By that assumption all running events are the same

 

[Half Time Pies]

Most don't actively court it though, do they?

I think you woud be suprised..we like to think that Bolt is clean but there are big questions over Jamaica at the moment http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/25062310

When I was at Lewes Tertiary college some years back there was a guy in my Biology class who dealt designer drugs to body builders in Brighton. I saw a trolley he had in house filled to the brim with seroids and pretty much every performance enhancing drug on the market.

Your article alleges that performance enhancing drugs are widely availble in Kenya, well...suprise, suprise they are over here too if you know where to go but that doesnt mean that everyone that comes here to train is a drugs cheat.

 

[Half Time Pies]

What a load of rubbish. The race yesterday was tactically brilliant, and that has to be a skill. There was one point where Mo, with about 400 metres to go, drew level with the leader, almost as a reminder that he was still there, and then fell back again. His finishing speed, as well, is not just about running. The man is an inspiration in all sorts of ways, and is certainly up there with a shout.

1. You mistake tactics for skill. Two different things
2. Hardly anyone belongs to an athletics club and plays athletics seriously. Athletics is what the BBC promote (like women's football) because it is all they are left with after sky have taken all the sports that anyone actually plays and are interested in . Athletics is something people do as a fun run and raising money for charity.
3. A sportsman ? It needs skill and we all know what they look like. They kick a football and be skilful at football one day, then they pick up a golf club and be naturally good at that as well and the same with a range of sports. Running, cycling and rowing are forms of transport the require endurance, training and the like. They dont require skill. That is not to say that all ball sports require skill, they dont, look at the sort of people who play rugby. That is a ball sport that doesnt need sportsmen, just a body shape.
4. He might be your inspiration (I used to like Steve Ovett) but that is a different thing.

For anyone who doubts what it takes to achieve what Mo has achieved and who thinks that distance running isnt a skill the following BBC article just about sums it up http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34096616

 

[soistes]

Incredibly difficult question to answer, so the best I can do is a top 20.
1) CB Fry
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Stanley Matthews
4) Bobby Charlton
5) Bobby Moore
6) Lester Piggott
7) George Best
8) Seb Coe
9) Daley Thompson
10) Nick Faldo
11) Stephen Hendry
12) Phil Taylor
13) Lennox Lewis
14) Steve Redgrave
15) Chris Hoy
16) Bradley Wiggins
17) AP McCoy
18) David Weir
19) Andy Murray
20 ) Mo Farrah

IMHO the greatest single performance by a British sportsman was on July 10 1951 when 21 year old Randolph Turpin defeated the greatest pound for pound fighter the world has ever seen ( Sugar Ray Robinson ) at Earls Court, to win the world middleweight title. The second was by David Hemery, at the 1968 Mexico Olympics, when he destroyed the world record for the 400m hurdles and opened the eyes of British athletics to different training techniques in different climates. The third, was Andy Murray ( maybe a series of performances ) in winning Wimbledon in 2013 and finally putting an end to 77 years of frustration and disappointment.

Good list - but so much depends on what sports you're really interested in. I'd find it hard not to include Ben Ainslie on that list.

 

[Working class pride]

For anyone who doubts what it takes to achieve what Mo has achieved and who thinks that distance running isnt a skill the following BBC article just about sums it up http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34096616

How many people do you know play athletics? Sure, it takes lots of hard work, but it doesnt take skill, and skill doesnt take hard work (although it helps). George Best.

 

[nwgull]

How many people do you know play athletics? Sure, it takes lots of hard work, but it doesnt take skill, and skill doesnt take hard work (although it helps). George Best.

I know loads of people that play athletics. There's a whole thread on here of people talking about running 5Ks and other distances.

 

[Honky Tonx]

Which warm weather training camp does he attend ?

his local

 

[Working class pride]

I know loads of people that play athletics. There's a whole thread on here of people talking about running 5Ks and other distances.

Do you? When I was of sporting age I knew absolutely nobody who had joined an athletics club. Hence there is not one in every village, town and city in the country. There are however football, cricket, even rugby of one code or another in every town, village and city. That however is a side point (that i raised). Simple fact is that some people have natural skill, people like George Best. They will be good at football, cricket, table tennis, just about anything. Athletics and cycling is about getting from A to B. It's not skilful. Yes its a great achievement with lots of hard work, I'm just saying that it doesnt make the runner a great sportsman. Just good at running and lots of hard work. A sportsman is someone who can pick up a sport and without much effort be good at it. Also take a sideways look at anyone the BBC call a legend these days.They were calling womens footballers legends a few weeks ago. I have not worked out whether that was a political agenda to promote sexual equality or whether they felt they had to say it because sky have taken all the sports that most people are interested in.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think you woud be suprised..we like to think that Bolt is clean but there are big questions over Jamaica at the moment http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/25062310

When I was at Lewes Tertiary college some years back there was a guy in my Biology class who dealt designer drugs to body builders in Brighton. I saw a trolley he had in house filled to the brim with seroids and pretty much every performance enhancing drug on the market.

Your article alleges that performance enhancing drugs are widely availble in Kenya, well...suprise, suprise they are over here too if you know where to go but that doesnt mean that everyone that comes here to train is a drugs cheat.

The Lance Armstrong thread should give you an idea as to my knowledge of the subject and how I wouldn't be even remotely surprised.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I think it depends on which sport you follow. As said above

I think he is certainly an outstanding British sportsman, of that there is no doubt. We have had many people who have held world records, won gold medals, been world champions at one time or another, so I think it is impossible to pick one.

If I had to, Redgrave would be probably up there with itk botham being close, Jackie Stewart and Fred perry. In the modern era, Farrah, Murray, Hamilton, Vaughan....can't think of any footballers really, ok so Moore won one World Cup and was a great ambassador for the game, but....

 

[desprateseagull]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34096616

I feel knackered, just reading this guy's training schedule..

 

[Goldstone1976]

Sussex and England cricketer, world class batsman, FA Cup finalist, England football international, world long-jump record holder ....... oh and three games for the barbarians at rugby too. Right Mo - get in training to beat that!

All true - as is the fact that he met Hitler before the war and gave him a nazi salute. For some, this would exclude him from serious consideration for the title under debate; for others, it won't.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Do you? When I was of sporting age I knew absolutely nobody who had joined an athletics club. Hence there is not one in every village, town and city in the country. There are however football, cricket, even rugby of one code or another in every town, village and city. That however is a side point (that i raised). Simple fact is that some people have natural skill, people like George Best. They will be good at football, cricket, table tennis, just about anything. Athletics and cycling is about getting from A to B. It's not skilful. Yes its a great achievement with lots of hard work, I'm just saying that it doesnt make the runner a great sportsman. Just good at running and lots of hard work. A sportsman is someone who can pick up a sport and without much effort be good at it. Also take a sideways look at anyone the BBC call a legend these days.They were calling womens footballers legends a few weeks ago. I have not worked out whether that was a political agenda to promote sexual equality or whether they felt they had to say it because sky have taken all the sports that most people are interested in.

I think a lot of these views about whether a sport is skilful or not simply come down to whether you understand the sport sufficiently to comment.

You can't have read the article I posted about Mo Farah so I will copy and paste the relevant bit:

"What of the contest itself? When Tiger Woods - rightly considered extraordinary for winning 14 of his first 46 majors - settles over his ball on tee or green, he is executing a closed skill. The only one who can affect the club or ball is him. There will be immense pressure, but there will also be silence.

When Serena Williams - about to tilt at the calendar Grand Slam at the US Open, 21 Slam single titles from 25 finals - winds up one of her car-crusher serves, or hits one of those mighty forehands, she has one opponent to worry about.

Farah, enjoying a similarly dominant streak on the track, has the same pressure of the grand occasion. He is also surrounded by 14 men trying to mess with his race and his head, able to sit in his eyeline or breathe down his neck, or ease an unseen elbow into his ribs.
He has one group of three working as a team, taking it in turns to hurt him, and then the same again in the vest of another nation. He has also had a heat get through just to get this far, and in Farah's case, a 10,000m final under the same immense duress less than a week before, in which the number of opponents climbs to 27.

Running isn't as difficult a skill as hitting a three-iron to six feet or volleying a ball coming back at you at 80 miles an hour, right?
Consider one tiny nuance of hundreds. If you run a single lap of a track in lane two rather than lane one - because there is no room on the curb, or because you are trying to get past a rival, let alone three of them - you are forced to run 6.8 metres further than your rival inside.
That 6.8m at the end of a race doesn't just separate gold from silver. It can separate gold from 'I'd forgotten that bloke was running'.
Kenya's Caleb Ndiku (left) and Mo Farah
Ndiku (left) pushed Farah to his limits on the final lap before enjoying a playful joust in the aftermath
That is just one lap in a 12-and-a-half-lap 5,000m race. And it is only one miniscule variable in the ever-changing permutations.

We talk about footballers who have the vision to pick out the perfect pass at the optimum time. In a distance race, a champion must be capable not only of spotting what is actually happening all around them, in front and behind, to their left and their right, but to work out what those 14 rivals might be thinking of doing too. That takes you so far.

They then need the weapons to respond to all those myriad possibilities and outcomes - not just one great tool, like the boxer who has a great jab or a fantastic ability to slip the punches, but all of them: the ability to go hard from gun to tape; to run alternating laps flat out and then slow, as opponents gang up and take it in turns to dish out the pain; to wind it up from 800 metres out; to blast out a last 400 metres that can blow the rest away"

This is the same as the other sport that you claim has no skill 'cycling', try to imagine the bike handling skills required in order to be able ride at high speeds in close quarters with other riders. Individual riders can approach speeds of 70 mph while descending winding mountain roads and may reach speeds of 40-50 mph during the final sprint to the finish line all the time having to be aware of all the riders around them and respond as appropriate.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

The main problem I have with Mo Farrah is his winning times have been absolute crap, so has he really been tested or challenged ? His time of 13 50 for a competitive 5000 metre's final was laughable and well over a minute off the World record of 12 38, and something a club runner would be embarrassed about, same with the Olympics of you look up the winning time, so has he been lucky in competing when there were no decent rivals ?

 

[skipper734]

No!

 

[Half Time Pies]

The main problem I have with Mo Farrah is his winning times have been absolute crap, so has he really been tested or challenged ? His time of 13 50 for a competitive 5000 metre's final was laughable and well over a minute off the World record of 12 38, and something a club runner would be embarrassed about, same with the Olympics of you look up the winning time, so has he been lucky in competing when there were no decent rivals ?

Its the nature of that event, they are often run tactically and particularly in major championships. Some countries run as a team and slow the race up and then speed it up suddenly to try to break up the field for example. If you look at all of their individual PB's they are pretty impressive.

 

[joeinbrighton]

The main problem I have with Mo Farrah is his winning times have been absolute crap, so has he really been tested or challenged ? His time of 13 50 for a competitive 5000 metre's final was laughable and well over a minute off the World record of 12 38, and something a club runner would be embarrassed about, same with the Olympics of you look up the winning time, so has he been lucky in competing when there were no decent rivals ?

Distance running is tactical and so if you are in a race where you are positioning yourself to hold yourself up and only take up the running in the last 3-4 laps, then it stands to reason that the time will be slow if the runners that set the pace are running at a snail's pace, as happened in yesterday's race.

If times are what you regard as the benchmark in athletics, you may be interested to know that Mo Farah actually holds the British record for the 1500 metres and posted what at the time was the 6th fastest time ever in the 1500 metres in a race in the Diamond League in Monaco a couple of years ago. It still wasn't enough for him to win the race though.

 

[GT49er]

All true - as is the fact that he met Hitler before the war and gave him a nazi salute.

So did the England football team.

 

[Seagull58]

Incredibly difficult question to answer, so the best I can do is a top 20.
1) CB Fry
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Stanley Matthews
4) Bobby Charlton
5) Bobby Moore
6) Lester Piggott
7) George Best
8) Seb Coe
9) Daley Thompson
10) Nick Faldo
11) Stephen Hendry
12) Phil Taylor
13) Lennox Lewis
14) Steve Redgrave
15) Chris Hoy
16) Bradley Wiggins
17) AP McCoy
18) David Weir
19) Andy Murray
20 ) Mo Farrah

IMHO the greatest single performance by a British sportsman was on July 10 1951 when 21 year old Randolph Turpin defeated the greatest pound for pound fighter the world has ever seen ( Sugar Ray Robinson ) at Earls Court, to win the world middleweight title. The second was by David Hemery, at the 1968 Mexico Olympics, when he destroyed the world record for the 400m hurdles and opened the eyes of British athletics to different training techniques in different climates. The third, was Andy Murray ( maybe a series of performances ) in winning Wimbledon in 2013 and finally putting an end to 77 years of frustration and disappointment.

Isn't AP McCoy Irish?

 

[joeinbrighton]

Isn't AP McCoy Irish?

He's from Northern Ireland.