[Albion] Is it time to hand out really harsh sentences for just carrying a knife ?

[Peteinblack]

My local magistrates Court is now a Wetherspoons - some may opine there is some degree of symmetry there!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Good one. I wonder what happened to all the profits from the Crown property that was sold, including many police stations, and fire stations.

Probably ploughed back into providing their services. proving a temporary boost to money they have available to spend, but means they will have less to spend when that extra money has gone as this isn't a sustainable source of funding

It's then easy for people to say it needs more taxation to pay for these services, but as we see now with large numbers struggling with the cost of living crisis, simply making things and life more expensive to pay for services isn't as clear cut and consequence free option

 

[Peteinblack]

The problem with announcing any crack-down on particular types of crime is that while it garners slavering tabloid headlines, they're just Right-wing virtue-signalling if there aren't enough police 'on the beat' to convince a criminal that they are likely to get caught.

That's what will deter people; knowing they will probably be apprehended, not the length of the potential prison sentence for a crime they are unlikely to be arrested for.

I live on a main road in a small city, yet I've seen Plod walking on patrol once in the last 6 years - if I was a criminal, I'd know I could commit a burglary or mugging in my street with virtually no chance of getting caught - so the length of any jail sentence would not be a deterrent.

Incidentally, many states in the US have the death penalty, but judging by the regular executions, it does not seem to be much of a deterrent.

 

[portlock seagull]

Do the research and come back to tell us what percentage of the Sikh population have criminal records and solely for knife crime. We await the outcome.


Or, was it just a classic case of Whataboutery?

Whataboutery probably, though I can’t believe you won’t go and do the research on a whim. Thought that was the first rule of NSC?

 

[Goldstone1976]

In the last 12 years ... I wonder what happened 12 years ago that may have caused this.

Is it Brexit?

 

[portlock seagull]

The problem with announcing any crack-down on particular types of crime is that while it garners slavering tabloid headlines, they're just Right-wing virtue-signalling if there aren't enough police 'on the beat' to convince a criminal that they are likely to get caught.

That's what will deter people; knowing they will probably be apprehended, not the length of the potential prison sentence for a crime they are unlikely to be arrested for.

I live on a main road in a small city, yet I've seen Plod walking on patrol once in the last 6 years - if I was a criminal, I'd know I could commit a burglary or mugging in my street with virtually no chance of getting caught - so the length of any jail sentence would not be a deterrent.

Incidentally, many states in the US have the death penalty, but judging by the regular executions, it does not seem to be much of a deterrent.

That’s why I hold no hope. Be naive to expect anything else given the sheer mountain of problems. Better to cross fingers and there but for the grace of…

 

[happypig]

S139 of the Criminal Justice Act makes it an offence to carry a knife "without good reason". There is an exception for knives with a blade with a cutting edge under 76mm (3 inches in Brexit money) which is readily foldable.

Personally I always have a knife (and a torch in my pocket) but never for "protection", just for everyday use. My current carry is a Victorinox Swiss army knife but I regularly carry others.

 

[beorhthelm]

Deterrents will work then, just like that? Good stuff! By that logic we should bring back hanging - no more murders. Job's a good 'un.

if we dont assume deterrents work the whole foundation of criminal justice is flawed. as someone pointed out the fear of getting caught is deterrent too, so increase the stop and search and find the carriers that way. still have to decide what you'll do next, consequences or no consequences. seems people are scared of punishment in the justice system, which is why its lost respect.

 

[GT49er]

if we dont assume deterrents work the whole foundation of criminal justice is flawed. as someone pointed out the fear of getting caught is deterrent too, so increase the stop and search and find the carriers that way. still have to decide what you'll do next, consequences or no consequences. seems people are scared of punishment in the justice system, which is why its lost respect.

But we assumed deterrents don't work when we abolished the death penalty.

 

[um bongo molongo]

The deterrents argument misses the point imho. A huge % of crimes are by repeat offenders. Most police know them locally by name. Bang more of them up, for longer, and they are not on the streets to commit crimes. Needs more prisons and prison officers. So build more and employ more.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

The deterrents argument misses the point imho. A huge % of crimes are by repeat offenders. Most police know them locally by name. Bang more of them up, for longer, and they are not on the streets to commit crimes. Needs more prisons and prison officers. So build more and employ more.

The Brazilian policing approach would be my preference, three strikes and they get taken to some remote location and dispatched.

 

[beorhthelm]

But we assumed deterrents don't work when we abolished the death penalty.

seem to be overlooking there are different deterrents, and there is still a stiff deterrent of life imprisonment for murder. do you think there would be more or less murder if sentance for murder was 10 years?

 

[GT49er]

seem to be overlooking there are different deterrents, and there is still a stiff deterrent of life imprisonment for murder. do you think there would be more or less murder if sentance for murder was 10 years?

Whatever the deterrent, it is demonstrably not sufficient if the offence continues to be committed on a regular basis.

 

[Gwylan]

The deterrents argument misses the point imho. A huge % of crimes are by repeat offenders. Most police know them locally by name. Bang more of them up, for longer, and they are not on the streets to commit crimes. Needs more prisons and prison officers. So build more and employ more.

We've had the PM-to-be talk of public sector cuts across the board. How do you manage to employ more police, open more courts, build more prisons and employ more police officers when the budget is being drastically cut?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How about we tackle the root cause of why the people feel the need to carry knives?

A lot of the young people carrying knives do so because their genuine belief is that they need it to protect their life. Doubling or tripling the sentence isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference to somebody who thinks the alternative is being killed.

Glasgow used to be the knife crime capital of Europe. The improvement it has made when it comes to knife crime is miraculous. The way to solve the issue is there, but unfortunately we live in a system where young, poor people mainly killing or maiming other young poor people has its benefits so nothing changes.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/100066/how-glasgow-is-beating-knife-crime?amp

Part of the remedy, as shown in Glasgow, is to lessen gang warfare. Reopen youth clubs, get the kids off the streets and involved in something worthwhile.
But, it all takes money. Something this government won’t do.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I mean, in answer to the original question, history shows us that harsher sentencing does not equate to less crime. It never has and it never will. I’m sure it appeals to people of a certain political leaning and who read certain newspapers, but it is a fantasy. What needs addressing is the root cause, as addressed above.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

London really is a unsafe shithole.

 

[Live by the sea]

London really is a unsafe shithole.

it’s as much to do with the breakdown of the family unit , couples getting divorced ( if they bothered to get married in the first place ) and in many cases no fathers around since kids were very young . Then kids start to look at gangs for authority figures . It’s a big issue in some areas of the States as well .

 

[cunning fergus]

The link says that there were 55k prosecutions in 2020 but the following link says there were about 1.1m cases before magistrates and crown courts. So quite a bit less than 1 in 10!!!

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8372/CBP-8372.pdf

Sure, ex Labour Party MP James Purnell said similar when he went to work for BBC…….which misses the point, but f*ck the poor eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/society...payment-tv-licence-television-desperate-cases

1 in 10 has been a historical benchmark as far as I can see……

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...es-account-for-one-in-ten-UK-court-cases.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-billions-led-one-10-magistrate-hearings.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...ases-surely-there-s-a-better-way-8778498.html

 

[cunning fergus]

Those are heard in magistrates' courts. Magistrates can't hand down sentences of a year so they would have to be held in crown courts - where there's currently a backlog of two or three years

I understand that, however aren’t magistrate courts part of the solution to reducing crown court cases.

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/reducing-the-backlog-in-criminal-courts/

Decriminalise non payment of BBBC licence fee everyone wins.