[Albion] Is it time to hand out really harsh sentences for just carrying a knife ?

[The Seagull]

https://news.sky.com/story/police-i...of-man-running-from-scene-with-knife-12675182

This story is shocking and obviously the person involved deserves life behind bars BUT should people even caught with a knife (and I know lots of people carry them for self defence) serve at least 10 years as a deterrent ? Haven’t we got to draw the line somewhere ?

Recently saw a police documentary, and the driver of a vehicle had a gun in the glove compartment but due to having a passenger both were let off completely free ?! Should this be allowed to happen ? I understand the complexities of that case but it’s getting seriously dangerous out there. When I was younger it was a fist fight only and both parties went home to live another day.

 

[B-right-on]

Yes.

The only reason you'd carry one is to use it or have the thought that you might do.

It's a very dangerous weapon. Needs to be treated as such. Period.

 

[GT49er]

https://news.sky.com/story/police-i...of-man-running-from-scene-with-knife-12675182

This story is shocking and obviously the person involved deserves life behind bars BUT should people even caught with a knife (and I know lots of people carry them for self defence) serve at least 10 years as a deterrent ? Haven’t we got to draw the line somewhere ?

Recently saw a police documentary, and the driver of a vehicle had a gun in the glove compartment but due to having a passenger both were let off completely free ?! Should this be allowed to happen ? I understand the complexities of that case but it’s getting seriously dangerous out there. When I was younger it was a fist fight only and both parties went home to live another day.

Not unless we build a whole lot (and a big lot at that) of new prisons and employ a whole legion of new prison officers (with zero involvement of Group4 and the likes).

So, it's a no from me. People who use a knife to injure or kill, that's a very different matter.

 

[Acker79]

37% of courts are closed today. There are strikes because barristers are on strike (some junior barristers are on less than 12k a year), following a period of not taking on other barristers' cases in their absence (apparently it was practice to step in if another barrister couldn't make it). It takes years to get to a trial (backlog is currently 3-4 years and is increasing), and when sentences people judges are obliged to take into consideration the time they have been waiting for the trial. Police, CJS, legal aid are all seriously underfunded.

Sort that first. Then lets see if we need to start giving mandatory minimum sentences.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

37% of courts are closed today. There are strikes because barristers are on strike (some junior barristers are on less than 12k a year), following a period of not taking on other barristers' cases in their absence (apparently it was practice to step in if another barrister couldn't make it). It takes years to get to a trial (backlog is currently 3-4 years and is increasing), and when sentences people judges are obliged to take into consideration the time they have been waiting for the trial. Police, CJS, legal aid are all seriously underfunded.

Sort that first. Then lets see if we need to start giving mandatory minimum sentences.

50% of all magistrates courts have been closed in the last 12 years, and others are falling to bits, needing urgent repairs.

 

[Berty23]

The majority of research evidence shows that the deterrence is getting caught of a crime rather than the sentence. It is proper red meat to the right argument to say “longer sentence for x”

X changes depending on the current mood. X could be knives, burglary, death by dangerous driving, rape, drunk driving, child sex abuse etc etc.

The justice system is in bits. Victims of rape waiting years for trial (and this also applies to people falsely accused). It is simple to say “make sentences longer” and grabs a headline but sadly people don’t realise that it all takes time and resource in a collapsing system. “Sack civil servants” - cool. Who will run the courts etc etc etc.

Unless we find justice properly then it is just headlines and nothing changes.

So back to the original question. I think it would make no difference if the sentence was 2 years, 5 years or 10 years.

 

[brightn'ove]

50% of all magistrates courts have been closed in the last 12 years, and others are falling to bits, needing urgent repairs.

In the last 12 years ... I wonder what happened 12 years ago that may have caused this.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not unless we build a whole lot (and a big lot at that) of new prisons and employ a whole legion of new prison officers (with zero involvement of Group4 and the likes).

So, it's a no from me. People who use a knife to injure or kill, that's a very different matter.

only need to build lots of prisons if no one is deterred. if we assume locking people up for merely carrying a weapon will be an effective deterent, should only take a few cases to be effective.

the alternative is what? few posters and dont carry knives ads, sending them on their way until they are arrested again isnt working. locking them up after injury and murder seems kinda too late.

 

[Live by the sea]

Yes automatic jail sentence for anyone caught carrying a knife unless there is a good reason to that is supported by evidence . More stop and search needed and targeted on the types of people that the statistics show are most likely to be carrying a knife .

 

[Bodian]

Yes automatic jail sentence for anyone caught carrying a knife unless there is a good reason to that is supported by evidence .

This could open up a huge swathe of arguments about what is good reason, and what constitutes evidence? The courts / police are already overwhelmed as it is. Would it include things like small pocket knives, butter knife? Or just of a certain size / type? And so on.

 

[tigertim68]

https://news.sky.com/story/police-i...of-man-running-from-scene-with-knife-12675182

This story is shocking and obviously the person involved deserves life behind bars BUT should people even caught with a knife (and I know lots of people carry them for self defence) serve at least 10 years as a deterrent ? Haven’t we got to draw the line somewhere ?

Recently saw a police documentary, and the driver of a vehicle had a gun in the glove compartment but due to having a passenger both were let off completely free ?! Should this be allowed to happen ? I understand the complexities of that case but it’s getting seriously dangerous out there. When I was younger it was a fist fight only and both parties went home to live another day.

If they got sentenced to 10 years they would only serve about 3 years , that’s the problem everything is this country is too soft , you get a harsher sentence for calling someone a name , than actually causing someone real physical damage

 

[Acker79]

50% of all magistrates courts have been closed in the last 12 years, and others are falling to bits, needing urgent repairs.

Yup. I meant 37% of still existing courts are closed today.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

In the last 12 years ... I wonder what happened 12 years ago that may have caused this.

Agincourt?

 

[studio150]

Needs to be a minimum size

 

[beorhthelm]

The majority of research evidence shows that the deterrence is getting caught of a crime rather than the sentence. It is proper red meat to the right argument to say “longer sentence for x”

the issue is getting caught with a knife means nothing. the suggestion here is carrying a knife, without good reason, shows intent to commit harm and that should have a stricter penalty. make it 1 year mandatory. its fairly easy to establish good reason, so it should be possible to take case to trial rapidly as there isnt much evidence required.

 

[cunning fergus]

50% of all magistrates courts have been closed in the last 12 years, and others are falling to bits, needing urgent repairs.

Approx 1 in 10 cases in the criminal courts are non payment of licence fee, a crime where 80% of those successfully prosecuted are poor and vulnerable women.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...d38/1648538172676/2022_03_29+TVL+Briefing.pdf

Decriminalising non payment would protect these women, and free up court time for the prosecution of knife wielding aspiring architects and all round good lads.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yup. I meant 37% of still existing courts are closed today.

Yes, I know. Sorry, my post wasn't a correction but an attempt at background information before today. I am fully in sympathy with the defence lawyers and prosecutors. I've seen how much work has to go into each case and they're being treated appallingly, like NHS workers.

Then you have fools like Dizzy Lizzy saying workers have to put in more graft.

 

[Gwylan]

Approx 1 in 10 cases in the criminal courts are non payment of licence fee, a crime where 80% of those successfully prosecuted are poor and vulnerable women.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...d38/1648538172676/2022_03_29+TVL+Briefing.pdf

Decriminalising non payment would protect these women, and free up court time for the prosecution of knife wielding aspiring architects and all round good lads.

Those are heard in magistrates' courts. Magistrates can't hand down sentences of a year so they would have to be held in crown courts - where there's currently a backlog of two or three years

 

[Acker79]

Yes, I know. Sorry, my post wasn't a correction but an attempt at background information before today. I am fully in sympathy with the defence lawyers and prosecutors. I've seen how much work has to go into each case and they're being treated appallingly, like NHS workers.

Then you have fools like Dizzy Lizzy saying workers have to put in more graft.

I got that, I just wanted to clarify for anyone else reading who was wondering why I said 37% and you said 50.

 

[portlock seagull]

Just pray you and yours never get mixed up in.

The long and short of it is the legal and prison system is utterly broken.

And cannot be fixed without enormous investment and reform. Handy the tories keep being re-elected therefore isn’t it…?!! And even then very savvy and expensive lawyers can and do get round it as we’ve seen on countless occasions.

There have been thousands of campaigns re: knife crime. You are better of stabbing yourself as a solution because nothing meaningful has ever and will be done.

Ultimately it beings with parents. As we all know many shouldn’t be allowed kids. Including, dare I say, some on NSC if cross section of society is applied!

Nope, this will continue to grow for numerous combined reasons. Feral Kids being feral kids they will always want to rob and murder each other for trainers, the way some one looked at them, to fuel drug habits, alcohol, just because they can, it’s cool to kill etc. Oh and poverty. Poverty is always the alibi.

Depressing ain’t it? Live your life and try stay out of harms way. Poor old pensioner at least lived most of his life. Trying to fix this is like reversing Climate Change. It will never be successful. The only way is down. As we constantly see with new depths sunk to.