Is Democracy Obsolete?

[Seagull]

Is democracy
(a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#cite_note-1 (notes cites Oxford English Dictionary))
obsolete?
(out of use or practice; not current out of date; unfashionable or outmoded) https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/obsolete
Other definitions are of course available.

A discussion I am going to this week. What does NSC think?

 

[Titanic]

I have always fancied being a benign dictator

 

[BBassic]

This about sums it up for me:

'Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…'

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

 

[Blue3]

democracy sounds like a good idea and if it's ever tried then I for one would be in favour to date the best we have come up with is a kindly benevolent dictator all other forms of government have failed.

I have for sometime been thinking we are entering a period of change has capitalism had its day and something different and possibly new needs to be tried

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Is democracy
(a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#cite_note-1 (notes cites Oxford English Dictionary))
obsolete?
(out of use or practice; not current out of date; unfashionable or outmoded) https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/obsolete
Other definitions are of course available.

A discussion I am going to this week. What does NSC think?

NSC thinks this needs a democratic poll.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Is democracy
(a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#cite_note-1 (notes cites Oxford English Dictionary))
obsolete?
(out of use or practice; not current out of date; unfashionable or outmoded) https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/obsolete
Other definitions are of course available.

A discussion I am going to this week. What does NSC think?

Yes. Because of all the STUPIDS.

 

[nicko31]

We need more Gina Millers to stop the slide

 

[Superphil]

If more people vote for something you disagree with then you must have a hissy for, stamp your feet, go on a protest and maybe even set fire to something.

 

[Seagull]

In current UK and US "quasi-democracies" the "marginal" seat/state can have a huge over emphasis, which feels quite undemocratic. Many UK "safe seats" never change hands so opposition supporters there have no democratic stake.
I was taken by the skew effect in candidate visits to US states http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/campaign-events-2016 "Two-thirds of Presidential Campaign Is in Just 6 States"
Trump won that election gaining significantly fewer (nearly 3m!) total votes than Clinton http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/president

 

[sparkie]

Is democracy
(a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#cite_note-1 (notes cites Oxford English Dictionary))
obsolete?
(out of use or practice; not current out of date; unfashionable or outmoded) https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/obsolete
Other definitions are of course available.

A discussion I am going to this week. What does NSC think?

Good question.


Possibly it is unless there are processes put in place to prevent hostile foreign governments manipulating the electorates with FAKE NEWS information warfare.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Trump won that election gaining significantly fewer (nearly 3m!) total votes than Clinton http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/president

Those 3 million votes came from California.

The electoral college system ensures NY and California don't get to dictate to the rest of the nation what Government has power based simply on their huge population sizes.

Trump destroyed Clinton 3000+ counties to 400+.

 

[Titanic]

Trump won that election gaining significantly fewer (nearly 3m!) total votes than Clinton http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/president

Trump fought the campaign by the electoral rules in place at the time... if he has needed an overall majority of the popular vote, he would have run a very different campaign.

 

[dingodan]

In current UK and US "quasi-democracies" the "marginal" seat/state can have a huge over emphasis, which feels quite undemocratic. Many UK "safe seats" never change hands so opposition supporters there have no democratic stake.
I was taken by the skew effect in candidate visits to US states http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/campaign-events-2016 "Two-thirds of Presidential Campaign Is in Just 6 States"
Trump won that election gaining significantly fewer (nearly 3m!) total votes than Clinton http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/president

Trump fought the campaign by the electoral rules in place at the time... if he has needed an overall majority of the popular vote, he would have run a very different campaign.

The U.S. is not a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic.

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." - John Adams

 

[pb21]

Those 3 million votes came from California.

The electoral college system ensures NY and California don't get to dictate to the rest of the nation what Government has power based simply on their huge population sizes.

Trump destroyed Clinton 3000+ counties to 400+.

What do you make of Trumps's plan to increase the US military budget by 10%; 10% more to spend on bombs than the warmongering bomb lover Obama, who constantly got involved in other countries affairs?

I presume you don't think this is a good idea?

 

[Pavilionaire]

The starting point to this question is to consider the amount of voters that do not bother to vote.

Look at the EU Referendum - majority in favour of Leave = 1.3 million, those who did not vote = 13 million.

The real reason we are leaving the EU is APATHY.

It's also possible Donald Trump wouldn't have got elected President if those that thought he was going to lose bothered to get out and cast their vote to make sure that he did lose.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What do you make of Trumps's plan to increase the US military budget by 10%; 10% more to spend on bombs than the warmongering bomb lover Obama, who constantly got involved in other countries affairs?

I presume you don't think this is a good idea?

Specifically on bombs? Links to confirm that please.

It depends where the spending goes as to whether it is a good idea or not.

 

[binky]

The starting point to this question is to consider the amount of voters that do not bother to vote.

Look at the EU Referendum - majority in favour of Leave = 1.3 million, those who did not vote = 13 million.

The real reason we are leaving the EU is APATHY.

It's also possible Donald Trump wouldn't have got elected President if those that thought he was going to lose bothered to get out and cast their vote to make sure that he did lose.

In the words of Geddy Lee...
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

 

[batch_91]

The fallout in the aftermath from Brexit has been a huge kick in the balls for democracy (regardless of if you agree with the verdict or not)

Democracy is brilliant, as long as everybody agrees with what I think should happen.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

For democracy to work relies on the voters to be properly aware of the issues they are voting on. That requires independent reasoning of the pros and cons and how that affects them specifically. The world we have is full of vested interests trying to convince people to vote one way or another, whether that be the politicians themselves, the media, companies, advertising agencies, landlords, unions, or the people funding the politicians, the media, the unions and so on.

When this information is not presented in a free, fair, trustworthy or equal manner we have problems; and when the voters do not partake of this information in an equal manner we have bigger problems. It means that democracy is in the hands of the press, amongst others, ergo 'It woz the Sun wot won it!', or the unions with block votes, or is influenced by slogans, not reality '£350 million a week to the NHS'

I agree with Trump that media agenda is a problem. It is then laughable that he attacks the BBC as the root cause whilst getting his information from Fox, but one can't have everything.

Sometimes Democracy works, but it is usually hostage to vested interests.

 

[WonderingSoton]

Democratically elected Members of Parliament voted to hold a referendum
The population of the country democratically voted in said referendum and took a decision.
A decision which the democratically elected Members of Parliament voted to begin enacting.
And a decision which the democratically elected Members of Parliament will in future vote to finalise (or not if they so wish).

Yet somehow democracy is broken because some people don't agree with the decision?