[Albion] Inverted wingers

[NooBHA]

The issue isn't that we have inverted wingers. The issue is that our inverted wingers are being supplied with the ball so deep because they're effectively wide midfielders who are on their wrong sides. Last night was a perfect opportunity to push the two wide men higher up the pitch and push Gross back in order to give more solidity to the midfield (as they were outnumbering us) and then allow our wide players to link more closely with Murray by running off him with pace in more of a 4-3-3.

But Hughton likes the system the way it is and I don't see that changing. I'd imagine that having two wide men on their stronger foots would lead to our full backs overlapping less and would lead to the middle two in midfield being exposed more, which is probably why Hughton does it.

You do see him telling them to change occasionally part way through games but you are correct he does seem to have a preference to play the inverted wingers. He did at Birmingham and Norwich as well but strangely, not when he was at Newcastle but that was probably because his main striker there was Andy Carroll and he probably preferred the wingers to cross the ball in that situation

 

[MattBackHome]

The issue isn't that we have inverted wingers. The issue is that our inverted wingers are being supplied with the ball so deep because they're effectively wide midfielders who are on their wrong sides. Last night was a perfect opportunity to push the two wide men higher up the pitch and push Gross back in order to give more solidity to the midfield (as they were outnumbering us) and then allow our wide players to link more closely with Murray by running off him with pace in more of a 4-3-3.

But Hughton likes the system the way it is and I don't see that changing. I'd imagine that having two wide men on their stronger foots would lead to our full backs overlapping less and would lead to the middle two in midfield being exposed more, which is probably why Hughton does it.

Basically this.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

You do see him telling them to change occasionally part way through games but you are correct he does seem to have a preference to play the inverted wingers. He did at Birmingham and Norwich as well but strangely, not when he was at Newcastle but that was probably because his main striker there was Andy Carroll and he probably preferred the wingers to cross the ball in that situation

I agree he did last season, but I can’t really think of a time this season where he’s switched them. And the system we play doesn’t really allow for interchangeability - it’s more that they just swap positions for a period of time and keep in the same rigid system. Like I said, I imagine that’s because he likes the solidity that having two inverted players gives him in midfield as it keeps us narrow against sides that often have more players in midfield - it’s much the same as Leicester’s title winning side who had Mahrez and Albrighton in wide midfield positions who could over load the centre, allow for defensive solidity as a result, and allow for the full backs to attack.

Like any system, it has it’s flaws and it’s strengths.

 

[AmexRuislip]

After this mornings bike ride I think I have an inverted willy

Those Penny Farthings are a bugger to ride

 

[scamander]

The thing about inverted wingers versus conventional ones is that they have many more options. For example, if you have an attacking full back he can overlap, causing the opposing side problems. Does the opposition full back let the winger go inside or track him and leave the space for the attacking full back? There's also the option of the long shot or through ball from the winger once they are in the space.

Conventional wingers have to be very good at getting outside their man and putting a cross in. Teams know how to defend against this more easily, and I seem to remember one of the reasons the inverted wingers gaining popularity was that various reports and stats showed the lack of goals coming from a winger crossing from the byline.

 

[AmexRuislip]

It's the way forward in today's modern game, the traditional winger has all but gone.
Plus they create space for the attacking wing backs.

 

[Bigtomfu]

Great shout and discussed with pretty much anyone I came into contact with post match.

Also should never have taken Jose off. He was (when fleetingly given the ball) terrorising them.

 

[perseus]

Is it time to give knockeart and izquierdo a game on the other side? All this cutting in slows the game down and gives defenders a chance to get back into position. I’m sure glen would score more if he was whipped the ball into from the byline. We have such a big pitch it’s about time we used it

Swapping over wingers during match is better than subs. Works better when one is inverted and one is not. And getting wingers to play inside as second striker during the game.

Avoids the predictable stalemates when even teams both play 4-4-2.

Playing inverted full backs against inverted winger might work (if they do not swap wings or a conventional full back overlaps). Knockaert did not have much joy against the inverted Ashley Young but Bruno overlapped and March did not have much joy against a conventional full back, so they could have swapped over.

Inverted full backs have trouble passing up the line and overlapping, so they have to be matched with a conventional winger (or a second striker that goes wide like Martial). Scouting the opposition mostly whilst Bong and Suttner are fit.

NB: Johnny Byrne played on the left as an inverted winger (not called that then) for Jackie Charlton for Ireland in one game. He said so (when I asked) on Radio Sussex.

 

[BNthree]

Read the thread title as Introverted whingers and thought that sums up 90% of NSC perfectly.

 

[NooBHA]

I agree he did last season, but I can’t really think of a time this season where he’s switched them. And the system we play doesn’t really allow for interchangeability - it’s more that they just swap positions for a period of time and keep in the same rigid system. Like I said, I imagine that’s because he likes the solidity that having two inverted players gives him in midfield as it keeps us narrow against sides that often have more players in midfield - it’s much the same as Leicester’s title winning side who had Mahrez and Albrighton in wide midfield positions who could over load the centre, allow for defensive solidity as a result, and allow for the full backs to attack.

Like any system, it has it’s flaws and it’s strengths.

I seen him telling them to change during a match this season so it must have been a televised match or Southampton or Leicester as they are the only2 matches I have been to but I cant actually remember what match it was

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I seen him telling them to change during a match this season so it must have been a televised match or Southampton or Leicester as they are the only2 matches I have been to but I cant actually remember what match it was

Probably Leicester as March was playing. In that instance, we were only playing with one inverted winger as both Knocky and March are lefties.

 

[Exile]

Also should never have taken Jose off. He was (when fleetingly given the ball) terrorising them.

The only reason he came off, was to avoid the inevitable second yellow, I would suggest.

 

[NooBHA]

Probably Leicester as March was playing. In that instance, we were only playing with one inverted winger as both Knocky and March are lefties.

Jamie Murphy was the other inverted winger that day but I don't think it was that match

 

[perseus]

Liverpool have inverted wingers, pen two out of three like us. Oxlade-Chamberlain and Mané are right footed and Salah is left footed (not double-checked). All are about as pacy as they get so Bong and Bruno will probably get booked.

Their team practically forces us to play deep.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/tactics/hughton-stopping-jet-heeled-striker

The other way (best way) of stopping a winger causing havoc is stopping the supply to the winger, from midfield especially. I do not know if the LIverpool winger's trackback very well or not? Therein may lay their "supposed" defensive frailties?

I was always looking forward to this game more than the Palace one.

 

[beefypigeon]

In my opinion, CH should be telling AK to mix it up and not just cut inside. If early on in a game in a one on one situation AK goes around the outside on his right foot, that will keep the defender guessing. As it is, he is a little predictable and if you know a player is going to always try and get the ball onto their strong foot it is relatively easy to defend against.

You could mix it up and switch wingers around, but the point still stands.