Interesting moral question for you all.

[The Great Cornholio]

This is not a Twatty style wind up thread but a genuine question which I am interested to see the results of.

Given the arrest of all the wanted bombers today, if you could allow them to be left in a room and let the other prisoners perform "natural justice", would you? Not just Islamic terrorists but the likes of Fred West, Harold Shipman etc. Bearing in mind how much it will cost the State to bring these people to trial and then how much to keep them in solitary confinement for the rest of their natural. Also bearing in mind that sanctioning such a move would be "mob rule" and there is a chance they may be innocent.

So, would you let them be ripped to pieces by a mob? If so, how does that stand with our "civilised culture". If not, can you justify the cost of locking them up?

I'm not judging here - just interested. For my part, I would be happy to see them ripped to pieces but I'm a bit uncomfortable about what that says about me. How many steps is that away from beheading someone you see as an emeny?

Let the debate begin - Twatty need not apply.

 

[Yorkie]

A trial is the only way to ensure someone gets justice although not fool proof as there have been miscarriages of justice in that method too.

Mob rule would be the same as that chap being murdered when it was thought he was a paedophile.

What we have isn't perfect but it is the best we have.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Interesting that you bring Fred West and Harold Shipman into the discussion - two individuals who escaped their responsibilities by means of suicide, leaving many questions unanswered.

The "mob" wouldn't be bothered about this, of course. But the families of their victims have been cheated.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

A trial is the only way to ensure someone gets justice although not fool proof as there have been miscarriages of justice in that method too.

Mob rule would be the same as that chap being murdered when it was thought he was a paedophile.

What we have isn't perfect but it is the best we have.

I agree with that in principle - but in such an emotive case when you are 99% sure they are guilty - the heart starts to rule the head. It will cost millions to keep them safe if they are finally convicted.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

Going the way I thought so far - nearly 50/50 with the slight majority saying yes. This is what makes the threat of escalation so real when so many people want "an eye for an eye" and won't be satisifed with just seeing them in jail.

 

[Yorkie]

I agree with that in principle - but in such an emotive case when you are 99% sure they are guilty - the heart starts to rule the head. It will cost millions to keep them safe if they are finally convicted.

Then you get the outcry that followed the police shooting the Brazilian guy.
They were pretty sure they had the right person (at the time)

 

[hans kraay fan club]

A trial is the only way to ensure someone gets justice although not fool proof as there have been miscarriages of justice in that method too.

Mob rule would be the same as that chap being murdered when it was thought he was a paedophile.

What we have isn't perfect but it is the best we have.

I think that the incident you refer to was when the mob of locals in Paulsgrove (Pompey) tried to burn down a guys house because he had a plaque outside announcing he was a paediatrician

Are the scum not brilliant??

 

[sams dad]

I don't think mob justice is permissible.
However,I am in favour of capital punishment for murder,or in the case of the "failed"suicide bombers,attempted mass murder.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

I think that the incident you refer to was when the mob of locals in Paulsgrove (Pompey) tried to burn down a guys house because he had a plaque outside announcing he was a paediatrician

Are the scum not brilliant??

Just to clarify I'm not talking about mob rule in the real world - but prison justice when the police strongly suspect or know that they did it. The kind of treatment paedophiles get when they are found out in prison.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

No. Otherwise what is the difference between them and us.

And you just create martyrs. And so it goes on.

 

[Yorkie]

Just to clarify I'm not talking about mob rule in the real world - but prison justice when the police strongly suspect or know that they did it. The kind of treatment paedophiles get when they are found out in prison.

The sort of treatment the mothers got in women's prisons on the evidence of a doctor who said it was almost impossible to have more than one cot death in a family.
Now completely discredited evidence and yet those women not only had the grief of losing their babies but accused of murdering them and having boiling water poured over them by 'ordinary' criminals

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Christ no. How does that make us different from them? And 'strongly suspect'? What kind of basis is that?

We've already (just speaking of the famous cases) executed Derek Bentley and James Hanratty where there is now extreme doubt over their convictions, and would have executed the Birmingham six and the Guildford four under similar circumstances had capital punishment not been abolished. These would all have suffered under 'mob justice', and all were likely innocent.

And what of the (innocent) relatives of these people? Do you think the children of the failed suicide bombers (one of them is reportedly a father) deserve to see their dad treated in such a fashion? Bloody hell.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

Christ no. How does that make us different from them? And 'strongly suspect'? What kind of basis is that?

We've already (just speaking of the famous cases) executed Derek Bentley and James Hanratty where there is now extreme doubt over their convictions, and would have executed the Birmingham six and the Guildford four under similar circumstances had capital punishment not been abolished. These would all have suffered under 'mob justice', and all were likely innocent.

And what of the (innocent) relatives of these people? Do you think the children of the failed suicide bombers (one of them is reportedly a father) deserve to see their dad treated in such a fashion? Bloody hell.

What do you think the relatives of the people killed on 7/7 would say to this question? I'm not saying it's right but on such an emotive issue, right and wrong can go out of the window.

 

[Yorkie]

What do you think the relatives of the people killed on 7/7 would say to this question? I'm not saying it's right but on such an emotive issue, right and wrong can go out of the window.

You usually find that relatives are the most (forgiving*) of the lot.

* not the precise word I want but cannot think of a better one at the moment.

Gordon (cant remember his surname) lost his 11 yr old son to an IRA bomb in a litter bin in Warrington and has campaigned tirelessly for peace ever since.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Does that make it OK though, Cornholio? The relatives of the dead want more death, so let's give it to them?

And do you think they'd ALL want it? I strongly suspect not - how many times have we seen victims, or relatives of victims of terrorism express forgiveness afterwards, or at least call for an end to all violence? It's what marks most people as different from the murderous fanatics who carry out these things.

I understand that, in the immediate aftermath particularly, some bereaved people are going to express a desire for revenge, but that doesn't make it OK.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

You usually find that relatives are the most (forgiving*) of the lot.

Quite right Yorkie. If you feel that pain why would you want other people to feel the same. Easier said when it has not happened to you of course.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

You usually find that relatives are the most (forgiving*) of the lot.

* not the precise word I want but cannot think of a better one at the moment.

Gordon (cant remember his surname) lost his 11 yr old son to an IRA bomb in a litter bin in Warrington and has campaigned tirelessly for peace ever since.

Some will, some won't. Not as many in favour as I thought - maybe I'm just a psychopath. It's completely against most of my beliefs but watching the news a while back and thinking how much money we are going to spend on these scumbags - a lot of it keeping the in solitary to avoid the scenario I have outlined. We will pay millions of pounds to keep alive people who tried to kill hundreds. It may be civilised but doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

the heart starts to rule the head.

that's what we must prevent. then we are no better than them.

 

[London Irish]

What a depressing debate. How many hundreds of years ago did the Enlightenment happen

 

[Robot Chicken]

Interesting...when these people (a term I use loosely) come up for trial, first of all how can they be guaranteed a fair trial when this topic arouses such feelings and secondly when (if) they are found guilty what should happen? Life in prison?

Or should we introduce the death penalty for acts of terrorism? Even when we've let IRA prisoners go free?

I wonder how long before the term "human rights" is used with regards to these pieces of scum.