in case you think justice for Hillsborough's on track now...

[aolstudios]

http://marksimonfrankland.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/25-years-and-they-are-still-trying-to.html?m=1
Nothing changes...

 

[spring hall convert]

"over emotional"

Wow. Just wow. How does Beggs sleep at night?

 

[The Large One]

If you want to know how the Inquest is going, you can follow David Conn of The Guardian or Eleanor Barlow of the Liverpool Echo. They provide updates from Warrington as they happen. Both are on Twitter. Having said that, I don't think the Inquest is sitting today.

Following it, the blog writer is on the money. Much of the work undertaken by the South Yorkshire Police's solicitor and the commanders' solicitor is there to undermine the evidence which doesn't hold them in such a good light. What they are mostly doing is zeroing in on the statements by the survivors, although rank-and-file officers whose statements had been altered, and whose evidence differs with that from the bosses are also being accused of lying.

An example, from the most recent sitting... http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/05/hillsborough-inquest-officer-report-suppressed

Spiteful stuff.

 

[aolstudios]

"over emotional"

Wow. Just wow. How does Beggs sleep at night?

Well, exactly - I felt fairly emotional myself at the end of that (& it wasn't exactly what I fancied reading first thing in the morning when someone sent it to me).
How the hell must it be for 'survivors' & families giving evidence? Still, I guess the £2.25 expenses would soften the blow...

 

[GT49er]

"over emotional"

Wow. Just wow. How does Beggs sleep at night?

And to think our forefathers fought two world wars for the likes of him to earn obscene wages at the taxpayers expense. What a slimeball.

 

[Acker79]

What does he expect, really, does he think anyone is going to just roll over and say "Yep, that was me, I caused the death of 96 people, my bad!"? Anyone who is being threatened with the responsibility for this are going to defend themselves.

One thing that they will do is draw into question the credibility of the witnesses, draw questions over his reliability.

"He told me that I had been irresponsible in not properly checking my facts. Ouch. Bad grammar, wrong dates, and now no fact checking. I told him I was a not a professional journalist."

This doesn't really reflect well on him as a witness. Can't be sure of his dates, doesn't care about facts. I'm sorry, but if you are bearing witness in a court of law, these things are important. If you have total disregard for them simply because you're not a journalist, you won't make a good witness.



Yeah, it's horrible that the fight for justice isn't easy, but did anyone really expect it to be?

 

[Triggaaar]

"over emotional"

Wow. Just wow. How does Beggs sleep at night?

It's his job to make a case for his client. He has to try give the impression that the letter and blog were not accurate.

 

[TomandJerry]

Somethings never change

 

[hopkins]

The reasons they get called murderers is because of heysel not hillsborough !

 

[Greg Bobkin]

What does he expect, really, does he think anyone is going to just roll over and say "Yep, that was me, I caused the death of 96 people, my bad!"? Anyone who is being threatened with the responsibility for this are going to defend themselves.

One thing that they will do is draw into question the credibility of the witnesses, draw questions over his reliability.

"He told me that I had been irresponsible in not properly checking my facts. Ouch. Bad grammar, wrong dates, and now no fact checking. I told him I was a not a professional journalist."

This doesn't really reflect well on him as a witness. Can't be sure of his dates, doesn't care about facts. I'm sorry, but if you are bearing witness in a court of law, these things are important. If you have total disregard for them simply because you're not a journalist, you won't make a good witness.



Yeah, it's horrible that the fight for justice isn't easy, but did anyone really expect it to be?

I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, but the very fact that Beggs is picking up on things like grammar, dates and not knowing someone's job title – instead of the core parts of the argument, i.e. what actually happened inside the stadium, at the Leppings Lane end, on that day, to me says a lot. Not quite clutching at straws, but along those lines.

 

[aolstudios]

I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, but the very fact that Beggs is picking up on things like grammar, dates and not knowing someone's job title – instead of the core parts of the argument, i.e. what actually happened inside the stadium, at the Leppings Lane end, on that day, to me says a lot. Not quite clutching at straws, but along those lines.

This.
Worse than clutching at straws, he's using irrelevancies to try & discredited & trip up the survivors & deflect the blame from the guilty. The blogger's point is also that many will be less confident & experienced than him & that it'll work, leaving any justice unresolved & the victims blamed again. Just like the front page of the Sun that day.

 

[Acker79]

I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, but the very fact that Beggs is picking up on things like grammar, dates and not knowing someone's job title – instead of the core parts of the argument, i.e. what actually happened inside the stadium, at the Leppings Lane end, on that day, to me says a lot. Not quite clutching at straws, but along those lines.

There won't be anyone who has mobile phone footage of events inside because they weren't around then. There wasn't, as far as I'm aware, routinely recorded surveillance at the time. Because of that no one can prove what they say is fact, so it becomes I said/you said and the best option in that instance is to point to the witness's reliability.

At this point all most people know is 'police cover up'. If Beggs says something like 'you say this happened, but according to e police, this happened. Do you expect us to believe the police lied' what do you think will happen? Who do you think is going to be believed?

Granted, no excuse for attacking grammar, but the rest of it points to what sort of witness he is. 'No police officer smiled' how many were there? Did he see them all? No so he is prone to exaggeration - witnesses shouldn't exaggerate. 'Armoured tank police vans'? Prone to emotive statements rather than just recounting facts.

It's the tactic Beggs has to take, because it will be hard to convince anyone to believe his clients' side and that's what it will come down to, who is more believable.

 

[aolstudios]

There won't be anyone who has mobile phone footage of events inside because they weren't around then. There wasn't, as far as I'm aware, routinely recorded surveillance at the time. Because of that no one can prove what they say is fact, so it becomes I said/you said and the best option in that instance is to point to the witness's reliability.

At this point all most people know is 'police cover up'. If Beggs says something like 'you say this happened, but according to e police, this happened. Do you expect us to believe the police lied' what do you think will happen? Who do you think is going to be believed?

Granted, no excuse for attacking grammar, but the rest of it points to what sort of witness he is. 'No police officer smiled' how many were there? Did he see them all? No so he is prone to exaggeration - witnesses shouldn't exaggerate. 'Armoured tank police vans'? Prone to emotive statements rather than just recounting facts.

It's the tactic Beggs has to take, because it will be hard to convince anyone to believe his clients' side and that's what it will come down to, who is more believable.[/QUOTE]
Or who has the most expensive & cynical legal team...
Isn't this supposed to be putting right the lies & cover-up of the last 25 years?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

There won't be anyone who has mobile phone footage of events inside because they weren't around then. There wasn't, as far as I'm aware, routinely recorded surveillance at the time. Because of that no one can prove what they say is fact, so it becomes I said/you said and the best option in that instance is to point to the witness's reliability.

At this point all most people know is 'police cover up'. If Beggs says something like 'you say this happened, but according to e police, this happened. Do you expect us to believe the police lied' what do you think will happen? Who do you think is going to be believed?

Granted, no excuse for attacking grammar, but the rest of it points to what sort of witness he is. 'No police officer smiled' how many were there? Did he see them all? No so he is prone to exaggeration - witnesses shouldn't exaggerate. 'Armoured tank police vans'? Prone to emotive statements rather than just recounting facts.

It's the tactic Beggs has to take, because it will be hard to convince anyone to believe his clients' side and that's what it will come down to, who is more believable.

Er, he didn't:

"He told me I was a liar to claim that no policeman had smiled on that afternoon. I told him that I had made no such claim. Of course I wasn't claiming that every copper in Sheffield had failed to smile on the afternoon of 15 April 1989. I told him that none of the policemen that I had seen had smiled. He said that was quite frankly unbelievable. I told him that it was true whether or not he believed it or not.

 

[aolstudios]

Er, he didn't:

"He told me I was a liar to claim that no policeman had smiled on that afternoon. I told him that I had made no such claim. Of course I wasn't claiming that every copper in Sheffield had failed to smile on the afternoon of 15 April 1989. I told him that none of the policemen that I had seen had smiled. He said that was quite frankly unbelievable. I told him that it was true whether or not he believed it or not.

Yep,
even after 25 years, this still really has nothing to do with the promised 'justice' for the victims & survivors at all - just the police & establishment getting of the hook, again

 

[dejavuatbtn]

To be honest, this Beggs guy appears to be clutching at very thin straws and one would hope that those holding the enquiry will see right through his very poor efforts to discredit witnesses.

 

[Indy]

Trouble is as far as I am aware the campaign for justice has never defined what justice is so how do we know when they will have justice?
Only winners are the lawyers...

 

[aolstudios]

Trouble is as far as I am aware the campaign for justice has never defined what justice is so how do we know when they will have justice?
Only winners are the lawyers...

The truth, maybe? I'm pretty sure if you investigate there will be stated aims but the lies uncovered and those who covered up brought to justice would be a start

 

[readingstockport]

"over emotional"

Wow. Just wow. How does Beggs sleep at night?

I was at university with Beggs, I knew him VERY well. I drank with him many times and went on a lot of hunt sabs with him.

I know a lot about him and his activities with the animal rights 'extremists'.

To put in context I have been veggie for over 30 years now and used to know Mike Huskisson and Ronnie Lee reasonably well, enough to say hello and have a beer with if we met in the street well. Beggs has been a police stooge for decades and is one of the most despicable examples of a human you could ever dread to come in contact with.

I know he's been involved in things that resulted in people I knew and liked doing 6-10 years, and now he's a police QC. Go figure.

And in case the mods think this is libelous most of this has already been published in Private Eye, like his association with the Hunt Retribution Squad, some of whom did the sentences I refer to.

Edit to add - Attila will remember the university I mean, it was where I first met him back in about 1983/4 or so.

 

[aolstudios]

I was at university with Beggs, I knew him VERY well. I drank with him many times and went on a lot of hunt sabs with him.

I know a lot about him and his activities with the animal rights 'extremists'.

To put in context I have been veggie for over 30 years now and used to know Mike Huskisson and Ronnie Lee reasonably well, enough to say hello and have a beer with if we met in the street well. Beggs has been a police stooge for decades and is one of the most despicable examples of a human you could ever dread to come in contact with.

I know he's been involved in things that resulted in people I knew and liked doing 6-10 years, and now he's a police QC. Go figure.

And in case the mods think this is libelous most of this has already been published in Private Eye, like his association with the Hunt Retribution Squad, some of whom did the sentences I refer to.

Edit to add - Attila will remember the university I mean, it was where I first met him back in about 1983/4 or so.

Blimey