If a football club's fans behave like these RUDDY students (Merged)

[Kinky Gerbil]

Kettle the lot of them

 

[Gazwag]

Which one of the NSC resident students will be first to post their "just back from the protest" crap with the first line being

"It was all the polices fault, its just not fair"

 

[Grendel]

2. The assumption here is that university students will go on to earn massive bucks - whereas in reality there are a lot of massively important vocations that require a degree yet pay less than 20k.

Under the proposals being debated at the moment, students won't have to pay back their loan unless they're earning over £21,000.

 

[Scotty Mac]

tossers

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Under the proposals being debated at the moment, students won't have to pay back their loan unless they're earning over £21,000.

OK, but even thats not a lot with the current cost of living, esp if you paying rent etc - and they will start taking a decent size chunk. Its a massive disadvantage for those who will be earning a wage that they could get to in probably less time without going to uni.

 

[Spiros]

Very easy to say when, as you point out, you did get it for free. I would point out that:

1. You've hit the nail on the head with what a lot of the younger generations feel - that basically the previous generation had the welfare state and the chance for social mobility, and now they've got it they don't really give a toss about the next one - quite happy to see massive student debts, impossibly high property ladders etc.

2. The assumption here is that university students will go on to earn massive bucks - whereas in reality there are a lot of massively important vocations that require a degree yet pay less than 20k.

3. Its fair enough to say you have to pay for things but, when things are paid for, there are ultimately always going to be those who are unable to afford them (or are put off by the price). Do you really want future generations of doctors, teachers, nurses, military leaders, politicians to be those who can afford it, rather than those who would be the most talented?

The whole point of what is being proposed is that unless you do go on to earn more than 21K pa you won't pay a penny. How does that mean that people will be put off because 'they cant afford it'? No-one is being asked to pay anything up front are they?

What you will get is a new generation of doctors, teachers, politicians who - once they started earning enough dough - actually paid for the qualifications they got. And if it makes some of those think twice who might otherwise have gone to some 'new university' to study the history of David Beckham then it can only be a good thing in my book

 

[ATFC Seagull]

The whole point of what is being proposed is that unless you do go on to earn more than 21K pa you won't pay a penny. How does that mean that people will be put off because 'they cant afford it'? No-one is being asked to pay anything up front are they?

What you will get is a new generation of doctors, teachers, politicians who - once they started earning enough dough - actually paid for the qualifications they got. And if it makes some of those think twice who might otherwise have gone to some 'new university' to study the history of David Beckham then it can only be a good thing in my book

The fact is that 21k is not a lot if you want to raise a family and save to buy a house, and you can get to a point of earning 21k + WITHOUT going to uni, and without a millstone of a heavyish tax hanging over you for the rest of your life. So it will discourage people from going into important graduate professions.

 

[Scotty Mac]

The whole point of what is being proposed is that unless you do go on to earn more than 21K pa you won't pay a penny. How does that mean that people will be put off because 'they cant afford it'? No-one is being asked to pay anything up front are they?

this

i am not entirely sure how many of these students actually understand that. having just finished uni, i am theoretically around twenty grand in debt. however, seeing as i cant get a job that is going to pay me over £15k a year, i couldnt give two hoots about it. and when it finally happens, ill be paying a whopping £7 a week back. two pints in other words

the fact that the threshold is increasing means that the majority of students wont be paying it back until they are a good few years into employment, even if there is more to pay. and if the vote is turned down, university places are going to do down by a massive amount, meaning half of those people protesting wont even be able to go

 

[Westdene Seagull]

OK, but even thats not a lot with the current cost of living, esp if you paying rent etc - and they will start taking a decent size chunk. Its a massive disadvantage for those who will be earning a wage that they could get to in probably less time without going to uni.

Given the amount someone on £25k will repay will be around £7.20 per month I think they can afford it !

 

[Paxton Dazo]

They can't be students .... a) They're out of bed and b) Countdown is on.

!

 

[Giraffe]

Given the amount someone on £25k will repay will be around £7.20 per month I think they can afford it !

Exactly. THis point really needs to be made much much louder. The conditions of repayment are EXTREMELY soft. A long way from being saddled with debt.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

this

i am not entirely sure how many of these students actually understand that. having just finished uni, i am theoretically around twenty grand in debt. however, seeing as i cant get a job that is going to pay me over £15k a year, i couldnt give two hoots about it. and when it finally happens, ill be paying a whopping £7 a week back. two pints in other words

the fact that the threshold is increasing means that the majority of students wont be paying it back until they are a good few years into employment, even if there is more to pay. and if the vote is turned down, university places are going to do down by a massive amount, meaning half of those people protesting wont even be able to go

All very well, but when you get a job earning around 21k, you will be handing over around 120 quid of your 1300 per month paycheck. That is a lot if you are trying to save or have dependents - when you could get such a salary without going to uni.

 

[clapham_gull]

What you will get is a new generation of doctors, teachers, politicians who - once they started earning enough dough - actually paid for the qualifications they got. And if it makes some of those think twice who might otherwise have gone to some 'new university' to study the history of David Beckham then it can only be a good thing in my book

What will you get is a new generation of Doctors and Architects who will have paid the fees up front and leave with no debt at all.

I have no idea how to fill the University funding black hole, but the argument that degrees like Medicine and Architecture have suddenly become more attractive to poor students is frankly laughable.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Given the amount someone on £25k will repay will be around £7.20 per month I think they can afford it !

Where does this figure come from. I read much higher.

 

[The Large One]

Given the amount someone on £25k will repay will be around £7.20 per month I think they can afford it !

How can does a monthly payment £7.20 repay a debt of £40-50,000 during one's working lifetime?

 

[clapham_gull]

Exactly. THis point really needs to be made much much louder. The conditions of repayment are EXTREMELY soft. A long way from being saddled with debt.

What worries me (really), is now there is a clear financial link made between education and work.

Fine if you are studying to become a lawyer or engineer. In fact I agree with some of the Tories on one point - in that industry should do more to subsidise the qualifications they gain from.

BUT

If degrees like philosophy, history even Film Studies are now seen as simply luxury degrees - don't come back on here on ten years and complain how thick we have become as a nation.

If I came from a middle class family and had just got a place at Oxford to study Sociology - I'd be seriously thinking what's the f*cking point.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Where does this figure come from. I read much higher.

Quoted in an interview with Nick Clegg by the BBC on TV yesterday.

Also stated by the Lib Dem MP for some part of Birmingham on the Jeremy Vine show yesterday lunch time.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

How can does a monthly payment £7.20 a month repay a debt of £40-50,000 during one's working lifetime?

It doesn't. Its made up. The proposal is a starting point of 9% over 21k...

 

[Billy the Fish]

Looking beyond the headline of maximum £9000 fees for a course, does anyone know what system they're bringing in to help the less well off afford it. I've heard a few Lib Dems saying it's more progressive and will help those who can't least afford it. I've heard a mention of grants but that's about it. It's designed by Vince Cable so there must be something.

As for the students, they were being interviewed on BBC news earlier and most sounded like they didn't have a clue what they were talking about. All most of them could say was education should be free and the banks should pay for it

 

[sten_super]

All very well, but when you get a job earning around 21k, you will be handing over around 120 quid of your 1300 per month paycheck. That is a lot if you are trying to save or have dependents - when you could get such a salary without going to uni.

Where did you get that number from? My understanding is that you pay 9% of everything above £21k (similar to the current system where it's 9% of everything above £15k). According to my maths (could be wrong) in order to be paying back £120 a month you'd have to be earning £37k.