I knew Gove was a prat but .....

[Lawro's Lip]

No doubt part of Gove's plan to get rid of LEAs altogether and give private companies free rein over our kids' education. Total disaster.

This is the main education story of the day, with a Dfe leaked document confirming Gove's plan to allow firms to run state schools for profit. (The Independent)
Don't underestimate Gove. Dismissing him as a prat is a bit like categorising Boris Johnson as a clown.
Gove is a consummate and highly idealogical politician who has been cracking on with his plans to radically change the structure of the English education system, including forced academy status, often against parental wishes and ensuring that local authorities have no say in how schools are run in the future. Giving schools the freedom to alter holiday dates is just a minor by product of these changes. I doubt he cares at all if it could mean cheaper family holidays!

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

I'd sooner believe Gove than a teacher on most things, but not this one. The holiday firms will just charge higher prices for longer, so no gain there. Plus it will be harder for people who want holidays without chilldren around (like me - been there and done that) to find cheaper off peak hols. So this tome, 0/10 Mr Gove. Must try harder!

Out of interest, why would you believe Gove over the teacher? Do you also prefer to get an appointment with a PCT beancounter rather than a GP because you believe them too

 

[Lord Bracknell]

This is the main education story of the day, with a Dfe leaked document confirming Gove's plan to allow firms to run state schools for profit. (The Independent)
Don't underestimate Gove. Dismissing him as a prat is a bit like categorising Boris Johnson as a clown.
Gove is a consummate and highly idealogical politician who has been cracking on with his plans to radically change the structure of the English education system, including forced academy status, often against parental wishes and ensuring that local authorities have no say in how schools are run in the future. Giving schools the freedom to alter holiday dates is just a minor by product of these changes. I doubt he cares at all if it could mean cheaper family holidays!

Indeed. Gove's agenda is to remove any sort of public accountability from the education service - other than "market forces" that will be controlled by the small number of big businesses that will eventually purchase the school system to serve their profit motive.

And why doesn't he like public accountability? Because some LEAs have a habit of being elected by folk who choose not to follow the Tory party line.

 

[Nibble]

This will have an effect on others apart from parents. Holidays will be expensive for more of the year,other people's bloody kids around for longer, parents having to take more time away from work having a knock on effect for self employed people like me. Summer hols are a nightmare as all the little part time accounts ladies take time off to look after kids and invoices take ages to get paid. It's a genuine problem. Shorter terms, more frequent, shorter hols. 3 weeks max in summer.

 

[Albion 4ever]

Actually I think kids need some time away from the classroom - for sports, being creative, just generally being outside and innocent, making the most of life before they get older and have a job, bills and responsibilities. I certainly wouldn't begrudge kids that. Pretty sure that whilst historically you may be correct (although I am far from certain), the rationale of it continuing pretty much worldwide in this day and age is the one I've given. And summer is the best time for kids to be out and about, for obvious reasons.

I'm not sure, but don't most European countries (and Australia, USA and others) have longer summer holidays than England anyway?



Ask any educational expert (teacher or otherwise) and they will tell you that that is completely the wrong way around. Whether people like to accept it or not, kids are worked bloody hard at school - and they aren't grown ups: a lot of them hate it and fail to see the necessity of it in a way that adults may feel about going to work in order to provide for themselves/family etc. It's an absolute fact that kids learn less and become harder to manage towards the end of a long term. If anything (and I actually think the current setup is not too bad) you want to move towards breaking the terms up into shorter chunks, not longer.

Absolutely agree with the above statement. All the people who want a shorter Summer holiday for children forget that they all had this when they were young and probably had a fantastic time doing so many varied and different activities that they will remember for the rest of their lives - Holidays, camps, trips, visits etc and now they want to deny this to the next generation! Kids brains are fried after long terms - 7 weeks is the longest any term should be from my experience. From a previous post about no half terms - If Easter was early you could end up with a term of about 12 weeks!

 

[sten_super]

Absolutely agree with the above statement. All the people who want a shorter Summer holiday for children forget that they all had this when they were young and probably had a fantastic time doing so many varied and different activities that they will remember for the rest of their lives - Holidays, camps, trips, visits etc and now they want to deny this to the next generation!

I have the complete opposite belief - it seems that quite a few NSCers were members of Famous Five in their youth. My primary school holidays were primarily occupied with badgering my mum into taking us on trips to places and watching TV. My secondary school holidays were filled with more TV, sitting around playing computer games, talking to friends on MSN messenger and the odd bit of underage drinking. Was it fun? Yes. Was it a necessary and useful part of my development? No. I certainly didn't need 6 weeks to do it every year.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Isn't summer term so long as it was historically, because parents needed their kids to help with the harvest?

 

[Nibble]

I do think a shorter school day would benefit children though, especially teenagers. Teenagers in countries where the school day starts at 10 have much lower rates of depression and the general "teenage grumpiness" and much higher energy levels, are more likey to have good relationships with parents and peers, eat helathier and enjoy better health and fitness due to one very simple fact, their sleep hormones are released at different times to parents adults and children. Asking a teenager to get up at 6 every morning is like asking an adult to get up at 4. A few countries have caught onto this fact and simply have a later start in the day for teenagers. Simple and very, very effective.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I have the complete opposite belief - it seems that quite a few NSCers were members of Famous Five in their youth. My primary school holidays were primarily occupied with badgering my mum into taking us on trips to places and watching TV. My secondary school holidays were filled with more TV, sitting around playing computer games, talking to friends on MSN messenger and the odd bit of underage drinking. Was it fun? Yes. Was it a necessary and useful part of my development? No. I certainly didn't need 6 weeks to do it every year.

Apply the secondary school part to the whole secondary population and that's a bit of a social disaster imo. Not insulting you, I'm sure you're well-rounded and all but if the majority of people acted like that, where would we be? Pretty much where we are now, heading for a sessile existence of morbid obesity.

 

[Nibble]

I have the complete opposite belief - it seems that quite a few NSCers were members of Famous Five in their youth. My primary school holidays were primarily occupied with badgering my mum into taking us on trips to places and watching TV. My secondary school holidays were filled with more TV, sitting around playing computer games, talking to friends on MSN messenger and the odd bit of underage drinking. Was it fun? Yes. Was it a necessary and useful part of my development? No. I certainly didn't need 6 weeks to do it every year.

Spot on. Kids do not need 6 weeks in a row off. I went out with a teacher for 8 years and my god she used to complain how dull the end of the holidays were. We'd go on hols with a ramped up price, she'd go and visit friends and family, few day trips etc and still have 3 weeks left to kill, hanging around Brighton spending money. She was a huge advocate of shorter, more frequent hols. Plus when the kids came back they were a nightmare.

Millie and Miles from the golden triangle may enjoy 6 weeks off visiting museums and eating franzipan with their parents but kids from other areas spend 6 weeks hanging around an estate watching their parents drink and fight, school is a blessed relief for some of these kids, believe me.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

This is the main education story of the day, with a Dfe leaked document confirming Gove's plan to allow firms to run state schools for profit. (The Independent)
Don't underestimate Gove. Dismissing him as a prat is a bit like categorising Boris Johnson as a clown.
Gove is a consummate and highly idealogical politician who has been cracking on with his plans to radically change the structure of the English education system, including forced academy status, often against parental wishes and ensuring that local authorities have no say in how schools are run in the future. Giving schools the freedom to alter holiday dates is just a minor by product of these changes. I doubt he cares at all if it could mean cheaper family holidays!

Totally agreed. he might be a prat, but he is a very dangerous prat because he is a very clever politician.

 

[sten_super]

Apply the secondary school part to the whole secondary population and that's a bit of a social disaster imo. Not insulting you, I'm sure you're well-rounded and all but if the majority of people acted like that, where would we be? Pretty much where we are now, heading for a sessile existence of morbid obesity.

But that's entirely my point (and the one I think Nibble is making) - you've got to be realistic. I think the majority of people do act like that; we don't live in some golden age where kids can run around playing in the local park without adult supervision. We live in an age where kids have plenty of entertainment inside the walls of their house and where safe green space is at a massive premium. And that's without even considering the implications of the increasing prevalence of dual-earner households (meaning that an increasing number of young kids presumably spend a decent portion of their holidays at a childminders anyway).

 

[Nibble]

There are kids my other half used to teach, 7 years old, lived in Moulescomb, their parents had never even taken them to the beach. The beach! What sort of fun packed, activity based beano do you think they will be having for 6 weeks every year? A lot of kids only get fed at school. There is a large percentage of the population living exactly like that.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

But that's entirely my point (and the one I think Nibble is making) - you've got to be realistic. I think the majority of people do act like that; we don't live in some golden age where kids can run around playing in the local park without adult supervision. We live in an age where kids have plenty of entertainment inside the walls of their house and where safe green space is at a massive premium. And that's without even considering the implications of the increasing prevalence of dual-earner households (meaning that an increasing number of young kids presumably spend a decent portion of their holidays at a childminders anyway).

Fair enough, although it doesn't bear out with my kids. They enjoy plenty of the kind of things you describe but also spend loads of time out at the park, riding their bikes, playing football etc.

Btw, I've worked in schools for years and I can't remember the time when the summer holiday was 6 weeks. Why do people trot that out? This year's hols are 5 and a half as we're last year and the year before etc etc etc. I agree with the latter who said the kids are spent after 6 or 7 weeks. Those complaining about schools/teachers should either become one if it is so cushy, or stop moaning. It's a free country and people have a choice of profession after all.

 

[Nibble]

5 and a half weeks then. Pretty much 6 weeks innit?

 

[piersa]

Don't worry. It's only the EU and royalty that you're fundamentally wrong about.

Indeed, only a fool would want us to stay in the EU.

 

[sten_super]

Btw, I've worked in schools for years and I can't remember the time when the summer holiday was 6 weeks. Why do people trot that out? This year's hols are 5 and a half as we're last year and the year before etc etc etc. I agree with the latter who said the kids are spent after 6 or 7 weeks. Those complaining about schools/teachers should either become one if it is so cushy, or stop moaning. It's a free country and people have a choice of profession after all.

You've been done there - my wife has got the full 6 weeks this year, and I'm pretty sure she does every year.

I have a lot of sympathy with your viewpoint about people complaining. I also think complaints about pay are OTT; there aren't many jobs (outside of the public sector) that require a post-graduate qualification that are paid less.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Fair enough, although it doesn't bear out with my kids. They enjoy plenty of the kind of things you describe but also spend loads of time out at the park, riding their bikes, playing football etc.

Btw, I've worked in schools for years and I can't remember the time when the summer holiday was 6 weeks. Why do people trot that out? This year's hols are 5 and a half as we're last year and the year before etc etc etc. I agree with the latter who said the kids are spent after 6 or 7 weeks. Those complaining about schools/teachers should either become one if it is so cushy, or stop moaning. It's a free country and people have a choice of profession after all.

Well my daughter breaks up on the 19th July and goes back 3rd September so that's more than six weeks. She was off for the same period last year but at a different school. My sons always have six weeks plus. I'm hoping you don't teach maths !

 

[Guinness Boy]

I wrote this blog post when the proposals were first leaked. The only thing that could have made them worse was letting individual schools set their term dates. This will affect any parent with two or more children who aren't twins at least once and will push up holiday inflation during possible half term periods. The bloke isn't remotely interested in children's welfare, he just wants to be seen as a great Tory reformer.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Out of interest, why would you believe Gove over the teacher? Do you also prefer to get an appointment with a PCT beancounter rather than a GP because you believe them too

I don't like most teachers. Ranges from treatment at primary school (turned upside down in front of class to illustrate multiplying fractions, face slapped by music teacher for failure to master dance steps, leg slapped for mistaken id climbing rope in gym) to secondary school bully teachers, to adult life where in my work they listen to nothing and know everything, usually prefaced by the inimitable phrase ' Well I'm a teacher so...
So there you have just a little of my personal prejudice honed by treatment by teachers in my most impressionable years.