I hate the Tory Party (apart from Kenneth Clarke)

[red star portslade]

I want my leaders to come from Scumbag College.

knowledge of crop rotation in the 21st century is a must for any future leader.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

So, it is just ok to brush under the carpet that Blair lied to parliament and the country. Is that illegal, to lie to parliament? And then those lies led directly to the death of around 200 British servicemen and thousands of Iraqi's? If that isn't the most disgraceful act of a British government in the last 50 years I would like to know what is.

My initial quote was that Labour led us into the deepest recession for 70 years. I think that is correct. The causes may be predominately global, I did not say that they weren't, but still it is a fact (well to me) that Labour were in charge when our economy went belly up.

There is still an ongoing public enquiry I beleive and if anything illegal happened then Im sure those responsible will be brought to book. We have a fine history of disciplining our parliamentarians; David Laws for example; told to sit on the naughty step for two years for committing fraud, before being invited back to sit at the big knobs table.

Lets be clear here: I am in no way defending Blair for lying or belittling the deaths of any amount of service people. My point is the government would have gone to war, whoever they were.

Labour were in government when the global economy went belly up. That is not leading us into it. They were not responsible for sub-prime real estate in America, for example, anymore than they are responsible for the weather.

What a government is responsible for is policies in its own country to fight off recession, and thats where we appear to be failing today in 2012.

 

[Albumen]

Hiarious post. Thanks for the laugh.

Hiarious?

 

[simmo]

Well go and be ill in another country and see what the comparison is like.

It really pisses me off that the NHS is some amazing thing to some people eyes. Let me tell you something very personal, my uncle whom lives in France (married to a French woman) got cancer 8 years ago and the French health service saved his life, I can remember him saying at the time how glad he was to be living in France to get his treatment there and not in England. My mum got cancer 4 years ago in Sussex, went into NHS hospitals etc and she died 3 and a half years ago.

The NHS ain't as great as the left makes out it is, you know. They treat it like some sacred cow that can never be criticised nor questioned, it is held in there eyes in higher regard than the Queen.

Just me saying that will sound like sacrilige to some people, but there, how much more personal can it get than that. It is a fact to me that uncle gets cancer in France survives, mother gets cancer in England, dies.

 

[Albumen]

If you live in Brighton, please don't vote green. Abstain.

In the history of retarded posts on NSC this has to be one of the highlights. Go CAM!

 

[Common as Mook]

In the history of retarded posts on NSC this has to be one of the highlights. Go CAM!

Stalker.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

It really pisses me off that the NHS is some amazing thing to some people eyes. Let me tell you something very personal, my uncle whom lives in France (married to a French woman) got cancer 8 years ago and the French health service saved his life, I can remember him saying at the time how glad he was to be living in France to get his treatment there and not in England. My mum got cancer 4 years ago in Sussex, went into NHS hospitals etc and she died 3 and a half years ago.

The NHS ain't as great as the left makes out it is, you know. They treat it like some sacred cow that can never be criticised nor questioned, it is held in there eyes in higher regard than the Queen.

Just me saying that will sound like sacrilige to some people, but there, how much more personal can it get than that. It is a fact to me that uncle gets cancer in France survives, mother gets cancer in England, dies.

O.K well Ill tell you something personal. Ive lost three uncles to cancer in this country (one this year), both nan and grandad and an auntie in Canada. I also know of people have been treated and beat it in this country on the NHS. Its the nature of the disease.

Some people who fall over will break an arm. Some wont.

You wont have anything said against the French Health Service and why should you? I dont blame you. But you wont allow the same admiration for the NHS.

 

[simmo]

O.K well Ill tell you something personal. Ive lost three uncles to cancer in this country (one this year), both nan and grandad and an auntie in Canada. I also know of people have been treated and beat it in this country on the NHS. Its the nature of the disease.

Some people who fall over will break an arm. Some wont.

You wont have anything said against the French Health Service and why should you? I dont blame you. But you wont allow the same admiration for the NHS.

You said go and be ill somewhere else. My answer is I would rather be ill in France and with personal reasons listed above.

The NHS is not as great as you think it is.

 

[Stat Brother]

knowledge of crop rotation in the 21st century is a must for any future leader.

That took a long time, coming.

 

[ROSM]

It really pisses me off that the NHS is some amazing thing to some people eyes. Let me tell you something very personal, my uncle whom lives in France (married to a French woman) got cancer 8 years ago and the French health service saved his life, I can remember him saying at the time how glad he was to be living in France to get his treatment there and not in England. My mum got cancer 4 years ago in Sussex, went into NHS hospitals etc and she died 3 and a half years ago.

The NHS ain't as great as the left makes out it is, you know. They treat it like some sacred cow that can never be criticised nor questioned, it is held in there eyes in higher regard than the Queen.

Just me saying that will sound like sacrilige to some people, but there, how much more personal can it get than that. It is a fact to me that uncle gets cancer in France survives, mother gets cancer in England, dies.

I certainly wont insult you or your family by belittling what is clearly a close and personal loss. I lost my mother last year to cancer.

However, I think it is unfair as there are many different variables here such as type of cancer, when discovered, whether the specialist that sees you is an expert in your area etc.

I have had issues with my local GP which could easily have caused the death of my son. However when we got him to a hospital they were fantastic, experts in their field, very thorough and extremely caring.

The issue however is that this is the same GP who the government would like to have in charge of patient choice and medical purchasing and clinical direction. The thing is, many GPs dont want that and it doesnt bring efficiency or cost saving to the NHS...... well not unless the next logical step on that path (privatisation) is taken.

and we all know how cheap and efficient energy, rail, etc are now.

 

[simmo]

I certainly wont insult you or your family by belittling what is clearly a close and personal loss. I lost my mother last year to cancer.

However, I think it is unfair as there are many different variables here such as type of cancer, when discovered, whether the specialist that sees you is an expert in your area etc.

I have had issues with my local GP which could easily have caused the death of my son. However when we got him to a hospital they were fantastic, experts in their field, very thorough and extremely caring.

The issue however is that this is the same GP who the government would like to have in charge of patient choice and medical purchasing and clinical direction. The thing is, many GPs dont want that and it doesnt bring efficiency or cost saving to the NHS...... well not unless the next logical step on that path (privatisation) is taken.

and we all know how cheap and efficient energy, rail, etc are now.

I just really wanted to show the original OP that the NHS in my opinion is not beyond reproach, nor necessarily the best in the world, nor can be made better and I couldn't show this without giving the very personal example that I gave.

And I do feel with some left wing leaning people that they think the NHS is beyond reproach and that any criticism of it is sacrilige.

 

[Silk]

It really pisses me off that the NHS is some amazing thing to some people eyes. Let me tell you something very personal, my uncle whom lives in France (married to a French woman) got cancer 8 years ago and the French health service saved his life, I can remember him saying at the time how glad he was to be living in France to get his treatment there and not in England. My mum got cancer 4 years ago in Sussex, went into NHS hospitals etc and she died 3 and a half years ago.

The NHS ain't as great as the left makes out it is, you know. They treat it like some sacred cow that can never be criticised nor questioned, it is held in there eyes in higher regard than the Queen.

Just me saying that will sound like sacrilige to some people, but there, how much more personal can it get than that. It is a fact to me that uncle gets cancer in France survives, mother gets cancer in England, dies.

You must surely be aware that different types of cancers have different survival rates, some are more lethal than others, survival may depend on how soon it is detected etc etc. I'm sure you'll have factored all that in before posting what would otherwise be an utterly facile criticism of the NHS.

 

[simmo]

You must surely be aware that different types of cancers have different survival rates, some are more lethal than others, survival may depend on how soon it is detected etc etc. I'm sure you'll have factored all that in before posting what would otherwise be an utterly facile criticism of the NHS.

And I am sure you must factor in that there are other countries in the world with better survival rates of cancer than the UK.

In any case it is time for me to leave. Good evening and Seeeaaagullls.

 

[drew]

1) What? We didn't kowtow to the USA with Vietnam, or Panama or Grenada. We didn't have to go to war based on a dossier of lies. And as for the Falklands analogy that is just pathetic, I along with others seem to remember Argentinian flags flying over Port Stanley, I don't seem to remember anything similar for the 2nd Gulf War.

2) Right so the reason we went into a recession was global financial meltdown, the reason we got back into is because purely of the Tories policies and nothing to do with the global situation ok. I guess the Euro crisis just doesn't count in your eyes when the Tories are in charge eh. but global affairs are the sole reason Labour got us into this mess in the first place. You can't really have that one both ways.

Did he say this? I have no idea whether Hunt has said that or not and don't really care. It is what he does that matters. Alistair Darling said a lot of radical things when he was younger, and Ken Livingstone too, it is what they did when they were in charge that makes me decide what I think of them.

They represent the views of a larger percentage of the public than Labour do.

That is pure speculations base on the last election. You could only use that data if everyone elegible to vote actually voted!

There is still an ongoing public enquiry I beleive and if anything illegal happened then Im sure those responsible will be brought to book. We have a fine history of disciplining our parliamentarians; David Laws for example; told to sit on the naughty step for two years for committing fraud, before being invited back to sit at the big knobs table.

Lets be clear here: I am in no way defending Blair for lying or belittling the deaths of any amount of service people. My point is the government would have gone to war, whoever they were.

Labour were in government when the global economy went belly up. That is not leading us into it. They were not responsible for sub-prime real estate in America, for example, anymore than they are responsible for the weather.

What a government is responsible for is policies in its own country to fight off recession, and thats where we appear to be failing today in 2012.

I tend to agree with that. With regard to Blair, as others have reported, the intelligence was not conclusive and giving Blair the benefit of the doubt, he had convinced himself the threat was genuine, which, as history now shows, was not necessarily the case. Look at the second world war, we declared war when we had not even been attacked by Germany and whilst I'm no expert, is there any evidence that Germany had all along intended to cross the channel and invade before we declared war? Having said that, when has he ever belittled the deaths of service people?

It really pisses me off that the NHS is some amazing thing to some people eyes. Let me tell you something very personal, my uncle whom lives in France (married to a French woman) got cancer 8 years ago and the French health service saved his life, I can remember him saying at the time how glad he was to be living in France to get his treatment there and not in England. My mum got cancer 4 years ago in Sussex, went into NHS hospitals etc and she died 3 and a half years ago.

The NHS ain't as great as the left makes out it is, you know. They treat it like some sacred cow that can never be criticised nor questioned, it is held in there eyes in higher regard than the Queen.

Just me saying that will sound like sacrilige to some people, but there, how much more personal can it get than that. It is a fact to me that uncle gets cancer in France survives, mother gets cancer in England, dies.

You attack the NHS based on your personal experiences but you don't know whether your Uncle would have survived with the NHS and your mother die in France. There are plenty of people who have had cancer in the UK and who have survived just as there are plenty of people who have had cancer in France and who have died. Cancers are very different and I also speak from experience having lost both parents and several uncles to it. I don't blame the NHS for that.

I just really wanted to show the original OP that the NHS in my opinion is not beyond reproach, nor necessarily the best in the world, nor can be made better and I couldn't show this without giving the very personal example that I gave.
And I do feel with some left wing leaning people that they think the NHS is beyond reproach and that any criticism of it is sacrilige.

Firstly, no one I know who works in the NHS says it is perfect but I'm not sure why you state it can't be improved? Also, you need to compare how much is spent as % of GDP by various countries. If we spent as much as France then maybe it would be as good if not better? What you don't comment on is whether you would prefer the US system to our one?

Spending on healthcare in Germany, France, UK and all of Europe


As for Seagull58, what planet is he on?

 

[Albumen]

Stalker.

You wish, CaMeron. I just noticed it as it was quoted by someone else.

I saw this today. Quite sick really but it's becoming less surprising.
The Green Benches: Tory peer's firm gains a 300,000,000 contract to profit from NHS Leicestershire

 

[Albumen]

Hiarious post. Thanks for the laugh.

The Green Benches: Tory peer's firm gains a 300,000,000 contract to profit from NHS Leicestershire

And dont start researching the amount of money a Tory Lord is making out of NHS agency staff covering the 'cuts'.
Hopefully the country can claw back some of it's integrity and pride once these ***** are voted out.

 

[pb21]

I dislike most politicians, the tories more than any other. They seem to me to be more smug, arrogant, duplicitous, mean, selfish, self important and plutocratic. Of course most politicians are, just more so the tories.

I especially despise call me dave though

 

[ferring seagull]

The 'old' values of Labour are surely no longer relevant.

Bevan's visage for a NHS was a wonderful thing for the UK and I would fail to understand how anyone could fail to recognise that.

I will not comment upon Trade Unions as, for me, they are now irrelevant in terms of where we are now, other than perhaps they can completely destroy our economy by holding the country to ransom (in certain instances). Perhaps they will continue to perform a good service to members in respect of employment law etc.

Things have now moved on and we are now at the stage where, whether like it or not, we are now at a stage in party politics where any (realistically ) mainstream party has surely got to focus on the 'macro' economics. It is just a question of how a particular administration would deal with any situation (eg the current economic path through which any administration will/would have difficulty in negotiating.

Sorry for this load of b********

 

[lawros left foot]

I was diagnosed Type 1 diabetic,22 years ago, 5 years ago I had a cardiac arrest in my sleep and only survived it thanks to my wife waking up, and my sons dropping me as they got me off the bed to perform CPR on me. I was taken into Hospital and diagnosed with Brugada syndrome ,a genetic heart condition that causes catasytrophic arrythmiam I had a defribulator implanted in my chest,which has to date fired 20 times.next month I am going into St Georges in London for a ground breaking operation to,hopefully cure my problem.Thi operation will be perfortmed by a world renowned Surgeon, and will be the first time it has been attempted in this country.due to my diabetes(probally as a result of a virus picked up on Foreign service in the Royal Navy)I would either not be eligible for private health insurance,or iwould not be able to afford it.The NHS has so far saved my life 20 times and it hasn't cost me a penny at point of treatment,

 

[Pevenseagull]

Ok but this is just your opinion, it is not the opinion of the Prime Minister whom I believe is in a better position to judge than you.

From the jist of your argument, I think you (and or the OP) believe this is cronyism from Cameron (jobs for the boys etc), yet everything you land at Cameron's door, you can lay exactly at Tony Blair's. (Derry Irvine, Peter Mandelson the only minister I am aware of that had to resign twice).

Should Gordon Brown have offered Peter Mandelson a place in cabinet a third time after twice having to resign from similar positions? Should Blair have got Mandelson back after he resigned the first time?

Mandleson and Blair were (and probably still are) disgraceful