Hughton Out

[symyjym]

This is one area where I'm optimistic with respect to Hughton. The one player he bought is now quite clearly our best player. I do think he knows the English and Scottish leagues very well, particularly the Championship (after he got sacked by Norwich, he spent his time watching the Championship). His managerial record is also encouraging. What isn't is his ultra-cautious approach to most things, and the defensive tactics he deploys.

Do you think that his cautious style will help for recruiting good players over the summer? I would say that it will probably put a lot of quality players off coming here. The brand of football at the moment is not a very good advert for the summer transfer market.

Good luck to him though.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Agreed. But Oscar was there only for a few days before going into hospital, McKinlay lasted a mere couple of weeks as effectively an interim coach.
And they had it all wrapped up by early October when Jokanovic took over with most of the season still ahead of em...

Still doesn't mean its ideal.

Leeds also had four managers.

I think the point is that if the squad is good enough, changing the manager doesn't always have a detrimental effect.
Our problem is that the recruitment over the last two years has been mediocre so it really didn't matter which manager was in charge. Hyypia got the best out of Dunk and we could score goals. Hughton tightened up the defence and played not to lose.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I have faith that Hughton's general tranquility and good understanding of what's needed in this league will bring out of the best in the remaining players, whilst also allowing the recruitment process to bear fruit. Such sudden snarling at his supposed failures i find rather foolish and unpleasant. The guy came in at a bad time for us and offered the experience we needed to clasp survival and stability, whilst putting in some good performances against decent sides with our one completely failing element: a toothless frontline. I get the feeling we'll strengthen through the spine of the team and retain a bit of style in our play to keep our identity. Fetid judgements can be made on Hughton much later than now if they're to have any meaning or worth.

 

[Machiavelli]

Do you think that his cautious style will help for recruiting good players over the summer? I would say that it will probably put a lot of quality players off coming here. The brand of football at the moment is not a very good advert for the summer transfer market.

Good luck to him though.

This is something I haven't thought about, and suspect it won't be uppermost in players' minds when deciding which club to sign for. The big question is whether he went all defensive out of necessity (because our forwards can't score goals) or out of choice.

 

[portlock seagull]

We will be amongst the relegation favourites mark my words. There's a stale atmosphere about the Albion, the feeling there's yet another clusterf uck waiting in the wings. I've seen nothing from CH that's inspiring, I predict another dreary sleepy safe brand of football that will ultimately see us go down if he stays. Still, that fits in with our history so normal service resumes. We wouldn't want to actually stir from our eternal footballing coma like Bournmouth, Wigan, Barnsley, Bradford, Swindon, Cardiff, Swamsea, Reading...and so the list goes on minus BN1.

 

[symyjym]

This is something I haven't thought about, and suspect it won't be uppermost in players' minds when deciding which club to sign for. The big question is whether he went all defensive out of necessity (because our forwards can't score goals) or out of choice.

I think players buy into a brand of football first, money second. If a club like Derby were chasing the same player as us and offered them £10k a week, we would have to offer £15k to tempt them.

I think we went all defensive primarilly because Hughton and Calderwood are old school CB's and probably don't know any different.

 

[Cloughie]

I think players buy into a brand of football first, money second. If a club like Derby were chasing the same player as us and offered them £10k a week, we would have to offer £15k to tempt them.

I think we went all defensive primarilly because Hughton and Calderwood are old school CB's and probably don't know any different.

Hughton was primarily a full-back (pedantry over and done with). I think we went defensive because that's where our strengths are/were. Relying on out-of-form forwards to blast us to victory would be suicide.

CH is not daft. He's been around football (in a variety of roles) for donkeys years and ultimately he achieved his target which was to see us safe in the championship.

 

[symyjym]

Hughton was primarily a full-back (pedantry over and done with). I think we went defensive because that's where our strengths are/were. Relying on out-of-form forwards to blast us to victory would be suicide.

CH is not daft. He's been around football (in a variety of roles) for donkeys years and ultimately he achieved his target which was to see us safe in the championship.

I was pleased to see him come here and thought he was the best man for the job but now have reservations.

Yes he has been around in football for a long time, but football has also changed a lot. He has a good record on paper, did well for Birmingham without getting them promoted. Newcastle had a squad of Prem players when promoted. Set them up as an average Prem side which is good in the Prem, not sure about setting up as an average Championship side though because it doesn't get teams promoted.

I was surprised that Norwich wanted to sack him, but when he came here the reports from Norwich fans backs up the reason, but I adamantly dismissed their claims at the time.

I hope you are right and he does well for us in the Championship, but will he build a team with enough fight to get us out of it, I'm not convinced based on what I have seen so far.

We will see though.

Edit: To set up defensively and still lose 5 out of the last 7 games with no wins is suicidal. The best form of defense is attack. Force the opposition to concede corners, free kicks, throwings and yellow cards.

 

[mona]

I was pleased to see him come here and thought he was the best man for the job but now have reservations.

Yes he has been around in football for a long time, but football has also changed a lot. He has a good record on paper, did well for Birmingham without getting them promoted. Newcastle had a squad of Prem players when promoted. Set them up as an average Prem side which is good in the Prem, not sure about setting up as an average Championship side though because it doesn't get teams promoted.

I was surprised that Norwich wanted to sack him, but when he came here the reports from Norwich fans backs up the reason, but I adamantly dismissed their claims at the time.

I hope you are right and he does well for us in the Championship, but will he build a team with enough fight to get us out of it, I'm not convinced based on what I have seen so far.

We will see though.

Edit: To set up defensively and still lose 5 out of the last 7 games with no wins is suicidal. The best form of defense is attack. Force the opposition to concede corners, free kicks, throwings and yellow cards.

I find it heartening that somebody in B & H has so much trust in the opinions of good old Norfolk boys. It makes such a change from the usual 6 fingered jibes.
Of course, Hughton should have turned a struggling team into a pass and move team in a matter of weeks. Just like you do on Championship Manager.
The fact that the Albion haven't got enough players into the box even under Poyet ( after Withdean ) is not worth mentioning. Ulloa was such a good player because he was isolated and a lone striker thanks to negative tactics. But hey ho this problem is all down to Hughton...........and the Carrow Road boys are so smart. The Geordies and Brummies don't know their football obviously.
FFS judge the bloke next season when he's had a summer to bring players in.

 

[GT49er]

Hope he stops with this ridiculous rotation policy next season. I understand maybe 1 or 2 changes maybe be required but 5 - 6 every game is just crazy.

I don't get this "5 or 6 changes every game" stuff. When?

The back five were pretty consistently picked (apart from suspensions), and once Stephens was fit, I think he and Kayal played every game. That makes seven. Just the front four places to tinker with - and boy, did they need tinkering with! Although ultimately he didn't have much choice about leaving out March, Baldrick and Tex anyway.

Yes, I'm sure you'll dig up an example or two to 'prove' you're right - but I'm sure that will only be a minority of the games played. Exceptions don't necessarily prove the rule!

 

[Working class pride]

I can see this from both sides, Hypia failed with a side he didnt buy and ch didnt do much better. This thread shows that fans are not as impatient t as the press make out. Despite ch record this season, most will judge him after he has assembled a squad. I see that but I also expect a good manager to be able to improve a squad he is given. CH didnt do that too well and so im on the fence.

 

[Gary1]

It was obvious to most people that the reason for the tinkering with the team was down to trying to find a way of getting a goal in a game. As the above poster says it is rubbish to say he was making half a dozen changes a game. The changes were mainly revolving around Tex,COG, Best and CMS to try and find the magic key to goal. If he'd stuck with the same team every week the same people would be on here moaning that he wasn't changing the team enough to try and win a game. The fact is we had a serious problem in the team and those that got picked underachieved.

 

[symyjym]

I find it heartening that somebody in B & H has so much trust in the opinions of good old Norfolk boys. It makes such a change from the usual 6 fingered jibes.
Of course, Hughton should have turned a struggling team into a pass and move team in a matter of weeks. Just like you do on Championship Manager.
The fact that the Albion haven't got enough players into the box even under Poyet ( after Withdean ) is not worth mentioning. Ulloa was such a good player because he was isolated and a lone striker thanks to negative tactics. But hey ho this problem is all down to Hughton...........and the Carrow Road boys are so smart. The Geordies and Brummies don't know their football obviously.
FFS judge the bloke next season when he's had a summer to bring players in.

There has to be at least 8 attempts of poor sarcasm in your post, nice work give yourself a cheap pat on the back.

Never played Championship Manager. Is pass and move a setting on it?

Seriously though, have I said at any time said that it was a pass and move problem? No, they are professional footballers and they would have learnt the fundamental stuff years ago. Judging him next season clearly didn't apply to Hyypia when our “twelfth man” was baying for his blood at the Amex instead of getting behind the team. The double standards on here is ironic.

I will fairly judge him on this season and I fairly will judge him again next, but It's not going to be me who sinks to the level of hounding a manager out at the Amex. And no I haven't got the time to get into a discussion about Poyet.

 

[Cloughie]

I was pleased to see him come here and thought he was the best man for the job but now have reservations.

Yes he has been around in football for a long time, but football has also changed a lot. He has a good record on paper, did well for Birmingham without getting them promoted. Newcastle had a squad of Prem players when promoted. Set them up as an average Prem side which is good in the Prem, not sure about setting up as an average Championship side though because it doesn't get teams promoted.

I was surprised that Norwich wanted to sack him, but when he came here the reports from Norwich fans backs up the reason, but I adamantly dismissed their claims at the time.

I hope you are right and he does well for us in the Championship, but will he build a team with enough fight to get us out of it, I'm not convinced based on what I have seen so far.

We will see though.

Edit: To set up defensively and still lose 5 out of the last 7 games with no wins is suicidal. The best form of defense is attack. Force the opposition to concede corners, free kicks, throwings and yellow cards.

The last bit is true, although you're entirely dismissing the chances we missed before we conceded. Any team that misses guilt edged chances is viable to concede. Whether it's us or Barcelone (The Cheslea Semi where JT was sent off is a prime example) the mental shift is clearly visible particularly from sides who have struggled in front of goal. When Carayol missed after a matter of seconds at Watford you could sense the unease. Same with Gomez's save from O'Grady later in the match. If you're forced to defend for long periods of time without respite you're going to concede. It really is that simple.

I think it's tottally natural that people have reservations about CH. The football has been dismal and the results have been awful too. But how much of this can really be blamed on him? When he joined the club his hands were financially tied in January because we had committed to several loans and under performing players. He didn't have anything to do with that. I'd liken that to giving someone a guitar with two strings and asking them to play the Beatles' greatest hits - it's not going to happen. Let's give the fella a chance. He took over a quality, yet under performing squad at Newcastle and got them established in the premiership. He took over a disgracefully run Birmingham City whose owner was arrested and all their money had been frozen. He had them doing well in the Championship (in and around the playoffs) and got them into the Europa league group stages if I'm not wrong(?). He's got a track record - something that a fair few of our recent appointments lacked & something we've not really had since Coppell (Omitting MM's pedigree there).

 

[symyjym]

The last bit is true, although you're entirely dismissing the chances we missed before we conceded. Any team that misses guilt edged chances is viable to concede. Whether it's us or Barcelone (The Cheslea Semi where JT was sent off is a prime example) the mental shift is clearly visible particularly from sides who have struggled in front of goal. When Carayol missed after a matter of seconds at Watford you could sense the unease. Same with Gomez's save from O'Grady later in the match. If you're forced to defend for long periods of time without respite you're going to concede. It really is that simple.

I think it's tottally natural that people have reservations about CH. The football has been dismal and the results have been awful too. But how much of this can really be blamed on him? When he joined the club his hands were financially tied in January because we had committed to several loans and under performing players. He didn't have anything to do with that. I'd liken that to giving someone a guitar with two strings and asking them to play the Beatles' greatest hits - it's not going to happen. Let's give the fella a chance. He took over a quality, yet under performing squad at Newcastle and got them established in the premiership. He took over a disgracefully run Birmingham City whose owner was arrested and all their money had been frozen. He had them doing well in the Championship (in and around the playoffs) and got them into the Europa league group stages if I'm not wrong(?). He's got a track record - something that a fair few of our recent appointments lacked & something we've not really had since Coppell (Omitting MM's pedigree there).

Hyypia had more than his fair share of those too. My only but is; How much of the Hyypia era could really be blamed on him when coming here after a quick fix summer patch up job? I was disappointed that some of our fans decided to hound the guy out of here, and right this second, with the way this season has ended, we look worse for it.

The posters who have taken offence to my doubts about Hughton, are the same ones who were vocally abusive about Hyypia. My point is really a double standards issue, so of course Hughton needs more time, but so did Hyypia as I thought the attacking mindset was the one we hadve to adopt for the long term.

Good fair post by they way

 

[jamie the seagull]

Well I wonder how many of those posting on this thread actually went to Middlesbrough yesterday, I did and thought we played okay tbh, not great but, better than a lot of games I've seen this season.
It amazes me how many people don't look at the bigger picture, CH first job was to keep us up, he's done that, with a poor squad that someone else assembled, he now should be looking forward to rebuilding, but looking at most of the posts on here, he will only be here a few weeks.
I would love to see how you would react if your bosses said, you're doing your job but I'm sacking you anyway..
Give the bloke a chance and stop suggesting that CH is boring then writing a load of boring posts on here

That would be the Middlesboro who dropped the FL player of the season and went through the motions by treating this game as a training routine for their play off....

 

[Seagull97]

Bloody hell, there is no pleasing some. If we had a quality striker that game would have been won as would have many games this season. Although Hughton is defensive, you can't lose games with clean sheets and if we have someone who can find the net a lot of games could be won with just the one goal, it may not be the pretty style we are used to but as it has been for Chelsea winning isn't boring.

 

[RexCathedra]

If he'd stuck with the same team every week the same people would be on here moaning that he wasn't changing the team enough to try and win a game.

The official line is something about 'not having a Plan B.' Apparently Adams, Slade, Garcia, Poyet, Hyypiaa and McGhee all suffered from this.

 

[mona]

There has to be at least 8 attempts of poor sarcasm in your post, nice work give yourself a cheap pat on the back.

Never played Championship Manager. Is pass and move a setting on it?

Seriously though, have I said at any time said that it was a pass and move problem? No, they are professional footballers and they would have learnt the fundamental stuff years ago. Judging him next season clearly didn't apply to Hyypia when our “twelfth man” was baying for his blood at the Amex instead of getting behind the team. The double standards on here is ironic.

I will fairly judge him on this season and I fairly will judge him again next, but It's not going to be me who sinks to the level of hounding a manager out at the Amex. And no I haven't got the time to get into a discussion about Poyet.

Make sure you pat yourself on the back also for being so magnificently sanctimonious. No doubt Hughton is eagerly awaiting your verdict.
You may well be right. We could all be cursing his negative approach by October. Let's hope the recruitment is better this summer, however, and we are all much happier about the club by then.

 

[Cloughie]

Hyypia had more than his fair share of those too. My only but is; How much of the Hyypia era could really be blamed on him when coming here after a quick fix summer patch up job? I was disappointed that some of our fans decided to hound the guy out of here, and right this second, with the way this season has ended, we look worse for it.

The posters who have taken offence to my doubts about Hughton, are the same ones who were vocally abusive about Hyypia. My point is really a double standards issue, so of course Hughton needs more time, but so did Hyypia as I thought the attacking mindset was the one we hadve to adopt for the long term.

Good fair post by they way

But Hyypia played a significant role in that patch up job you're on about. He helped pick those players which makes it all the more bemusing given his GOS interview earlier. Regardless of what we all think, the incumbent manger DOES have a say on what players come into the club. In hindsight Hyypia chose poorly. What we should be asking is was the pool he was selecting from deep/wide enough? Or did we wait far too late before we started to make moves?

As far as Sammi goes, the jury is still out for me. I imagine that he will never work in Germany again after the Levenkusen debacle (Some of my German friends thought it hilarious that someone would even employ him after that) but he was severely hampered by the lack of a full summer to organise the club with us. But you cannot deny the facts and here he was not a success. CH has ensured that we remain in the championship (something that was not guaranteed if SH stayed) and now has the benefit of a full summer to dispose of and recruit new players (something that MAY have hindered his predecessor). With this I cannot for the life of me think that we should change managers and run the risk of history repeating itself when we have a tried and tested man in place right now.