How Can People Still Vote Labour?

[User removed 4]

Your memory is very faulty then.


The strikes of the late 1970s were in fact a direct result of these anti-inflationary polices as the government held public sector employees to two years of pay freezes (or low pay settlements), it was when Callaghan tried to do it a third year that the trouble started and the mass strikes started (although the gravedigger dispute was local to Liverpool, rather than nationwide).

Your memory is very selective then.

I lived through those times as well, and can remember that union leaders really were household names during the seventies, the strikes were also the result of a very real attempt at destabilisation of the west by the soviet bloc, we are only now finding out some of the names of people in the pay of the russians, you also state that the strikes were the ' direct result of anti-inflationary polices as the government held public sector employees to two years of pay freezes (or low pay settlements), so the strikes were about money , plain and simple, all you've done is dress it up in flowery phrases.

 

[Gwylan]

Your memory is very selective then.

I lived through those times as well, and can remember that union leaders really were household names during the seventies, the strikes were also the result of a very real attempt at destabilisation of the west by the soviet bloc, we are only now finding out some of the names of people in the pay of the russians, you also state that the strikes were the ' direct result of anti-inflationary polices as the government held public sector employees to two years of pay freezes (or low pay settlements), so the strikes were about money , plain and simple, all you've done is dress it up in flowery phrases.

No. The OP said that inflation went "sky high" under Labour in the 70s. I pointed out that not only did Labour bring inflation down - from 25% to 7% IIRC - but that the strikes were a direct result of those anti-inflationary policies. There's nothing selective about it - that's what actually happened.

 

[strings]

A cuple more posters, mostly because they make me smile:

 

[ROSM]

In answer to the question, 'how can people still vote labour?' it could be because they'll drive (or maybe walk if it's a nice spring day) to the polling station, nod to the nice lib dem man and tory lady asking their details as they walk in, give their card over, get the sheet and walk to the little booth where they'll put an x against Simon Burgess' name.

If the question is 'why would people still vote labour?' then that's a different matter entirely. For me the answer is likely to be that they dont trust David Cameron. Having met with quite a few Tory leaning economists over the last few weeks there is a real nervousness that the Tories have blown it. Osborne is being perceived as weak and his numbers dont add up. Darling apparently has all the right answers but is too weak in cabinet to get his point across and it was only a cabinet revolt against Brown and Balls/Cooper that saved him. Cable is having the best press although he actually called the crisis wrong in the early days and has been behind the curve since then despite saying the right thing in the end.

Even the Sun support isn't having the popularity bounce the Conservatives expected. In facts attributable sales of the Sun have dropped significantly since they came out.

The question is, if the Tories can't win a landslide against the current labour government then they need shooting. As I've said previously, Tory support is always higher at election time than the polls before hand so I think they'll win a small majority but (with respect) they really should be beating parties like Labour

 

[Simster]

In answer to the question, 'how can people still vote labour?' it could be because they'll drive (or maybe walk if it's a nice spring day) to the polling station, nod to the nice lib dem man and tory lady asking their details as they walk in, give their card over, get the sheet and walk to the little booth where they'll put an x against Simon Burgess' name.

If the question is 'why would people still vote labour?' then that's a different matter entirely. For me the answer is likely to be that they dont trust David Cameron. Having met with quite a few Tory leaning economists over the last few weeks there is a real nervousness that the Tories have blown it. Osborne is being perceived as weak and his numbers dont add up. Darling apparently has all the right answers but is too weak in cabinet to get his point across and it was only a cabinet revolt against Brown and Balls/Cooper that saved him. Cable is having the best press although he actually called the crisis wrong in the early days and has been behind the curve since then despite saying the right thing in the end.

Even the Sun support isn't having the popularity bounce the Conservatives expected. In facts attributable sales of the Sun have dropped significantly since they came out.

The question is, if the Tories can't win a landslide against the current labour government then they need shooting. As I've said previously, Tory support is always higher at election time than the polls before hand so I think they'll win a small majority but (with respect) they really should be beating parties like Labour

This.

For all the Labour Party's many flaws, there is a massive part of the electorate who simply will not trust "call me Dave", or more importantly, the rest of his party. I fear there is a prevailing "better the devil you know" mentality among some of the electorate.

Personally I find it a sad state of affairs when people are so untrusting of its elected politicians, when you consider that they have been so much better than the politicians in many other western countries down the years.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

No. The OP said that inflation went "sky high" under Labour in the 70s. I pointed out that not only did Labour bring inflation down - from 25% to 7% IIRC - but that the strikes were a direct result of those anti-inflationary policies. There's nothing selective about it - that's what actually happened.

Gwylan: I stand corrected on the inflation figures you cite from the 1970s. Inflation rose from 7 per cent in 1972 to 24 per cent in 1975, exacerbated by the Opec oil shock. Government borrowing exploded. Barber was forced to introduce deflationary measures in December 1973, and the Conservatives ended up losing the election of February 1974.

Among Denis Healey's many Budgets aimed at dealing with inflation and balance of payments crises, the most notable was April 1976. A run on sterling increased the pressure on Healey to reduce inflation. His plan was to strike a deal with the trade unions. The overall Budget was neutral. But if the TUC agreed to limit wage demands to no more than 3 per cent, Healey offered a �1bn tax cut. In the event, Healey settled for a union agreement to limit average wage increases to 4.5 per cent. It was not enough to restore credibility. Healey was forced to go cap-in-hand to the International Monetary Fund for an emergency bail-out.

I think we can agree that both the main parties are as inept and lacking in credibility and confidence from the electorate as each other?

 

[Blue Square Thing]

The general election is about current affairs. Sadly I don't envision the downfall of capitalism any time soon, so I best look out for the wellbeing of myself and my loved ones.

Multiculturalism, the EU, climate change scandal, the war - these are all symptoms of capitalism that I strongly oppose. It is SO ironic, being right wing and that, that the BNP are the party with the loudest voice for all of these problems. They have been so vocal in Europe it's been fantastic.

Obviously I wouldn't vote for them if I thought they had any chance of getting into power - but they don't. I just want them to have a louder voice.

But it will help make their racially motivated policies accetable within the mainstream... Great idea that - especially just when the birth rate's been kicking up a wee bit to help pay for the ageing population timebomb. Great time to get rid of all the immigrant scum eh? </irony>

And as for vocal in Europe - dunno who you've been listening to? BNP are almost completely isolated on the loonspud fringe. Not quite in the same camp as the Tories have placed themselves in, but no so far off.

 

[Blue Square Thing]

Gwylan: I stand corrected on the inflation figures you cite from the 1970s. Inflation rose from 7 per cent in 1972 to 24 per cent in 1975, exacerbated by the Opec oil shock. Government borrowing exploded. Barber was forced to introduce deflationary measures in December 1973, and the Conservatives ended up losing the election of February 1974.

Among Denis Healey's many Budgets aimed at dealing with inflation and balance of payments crises, the most notable was April 1976. A run on sterling increased the pressure on Healey to reduce inflation. His plan was to strike a deal with the trade unions. The overall Budget was neutral. But if the TUC agreed to limit wage demands to no more than 3 per cent, Healey offered a �1bn tax cut. In the event, Healey settled for a union agreement to limit average wage increases to 4.5 per cent. It was not enough to restore credibility. Healey was forced to go cap-in-hand to the International Monetary Fund for an emergency bail-out.

I think we can agree that both the main parties are as inept and lacking in credibility and confidence from the electorate as each other?

Remind me again about interest rates during Thatch and Major's time?

And then you can be away and work out exactly what Osbourne plans to do because I can't make his maths add up and I don't think Dave's got a scooby. Now it might just be me, but I'd kinda expect them to have a costed plan they can lay out in front of me by this stage. It *might* be that they can't do maths, but, you know, with all those expensively paid for education's you'd kinda hope they could.

Their lack of certainty and history is one thing stopping some people from voting for them. Hell, it might even encourage me to vote Labour. I doubt it, but it's possible again.

 

[Blue Square Thing]

It wasn't a dig at you, it was making the point that should we end up down the Griffin route we will have a man who applauds Hitler and what he was trying to achieve. That is not being as deluded as Hitler, we find ourself with a man who would love to emulate Hitler.

What was it Griffin said of Hitler, "he was doing the right thing but the way he went about it was perhaps wrong."

Yeah, but that doesn't make him a bad man or anything...

 

[simmo]

Having met with quite a few Tory leaning economists over the last few weeks there is a real nervousness that the Tories have blown it.

Dream on, the Tories will win with a comfortable working majority, by May (or whenever the election takes place) the economy will be in pretty much the same shape it is now. When the undecided voters (whom always sway elections) get to put their X they will blame Labour (whether true or not) for this. The Tories will get enough of these votes to win comfortably.

 

[User removed 4]

Remind me again about interest rates during Thatch and Major's time?

And then you can be away and work out exactly what Osbourne plans to do because I can't make his maths add up and I don't think Dave's got a scooby. Now it might just be me, but I'd kinda expect them to have a costed plan they can lay out in front of me by this stage. It *might* be that they can't do maths, but, you know, with all those expensively paid for education's you'd kinda hope they could.

Their lack of certainty and history is one thing stopping some people from voting for them. Hell, it might even encourage me to vote Labour. I doubt it, but it's possible again.

Your use of the word 'kinda' makes you sound kinda of a knob.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your memory is very selective then.

I lived through those times as well, and can remember that union leaders really were household names during the seventies, the strikes were also the result of a very real attempt at destabilisation of the west by the soviet bloc, we are only now finding out some of the names of people in the pay of the russians,

Have you been on the spliff? What topic shall we discuss next, the moon landings were staged in a Hollywood studio?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Remind me again about interest rates during Thatch and Major's time?

16% I think, and as a result of the Tories not really having any idea how the ERM worked. Soros did, and made a fortune out of Britain as a result.

Anyway, onto the now. I dont think Osborne is much better equipped. He has no experience of business, and only vague support in the city. In fact there is as much concern in the city about his inexperience as there is support.

 

[User removed 4]

Have you been on the spliff? What topic shall we discuss next, the moon landings were staged in a Hollywood studio?

BBC NEWS | UK | Jack Jones 'worked for KGB' claim
TGWU leader Jack Jones was in contact with KGB, says MI5 book - Times Online
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm

You reveal your lack of understanding of the Soviet policy of attempting to destabilise western society through various means during the cold war.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

BBC NEWS | UK | Jack Jones 'worked for KGB' claim
TGWU leader Jack Jones was in contact with KGB, says MI5 book - Times Online
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm

You reveal your lack of understanding of the Soviet policy of attempting to destabilise western society through various means during the cold war.

A few claims and a couple of friendships is not a major attempt or conspiracy to bring about the downfall of western civilisation. Well, not in my mind anyway.

 

[User removed 4]

16% I think, and as a result of the Tories not really having any idea how the ERM worked. Soros did, and made a fortune out of Britain as a result.

Anyway, onto the now. I dont think Osborne is much better equipped. He has no experience of business, and only vague support in the city. In fact there is as much concern in the city about his inexperience as there is support.

16% for how long ? you know full well how long dont you , its just typical of the way that you and all the other new labour sheep have no real argument , just attempts at lies and distortion, and you're talking absolute bollocks about the city(as usual) i work there, and support for labour and darling is rarer than rocking horse shit.

 

[User removed 4]

A few claims and a couple of friendships is not a major attempt or conspiracy to bring about the downfall of western civilisation. Well, not in my mind anyway.

Are you seriously trying to claim that there was no Soviet policy of destabilisation of western society leading to it's downfall during the cold war ? You probably believed the iron curtain was there to keep us out as well ?? you really havent got a clue have you ?

 

[ROSM]

Dream on, the Tories will win with a comfortable working majority, by May (or whenever the election takes place) the economy will be in pretty much the same shape it is now. When the undecided voters (whom always sway elections) get to put their X they will blame Labour (whether true or not) for this. The Tories will get enough of these votes to win comfortably.

If you'd read what I said, you will see that I was saying that I thought the Conservatives would win and do better than the current polls suggest.

My comment on blown it wasn't to do with winning an election. That's only half of it. It's what you do once you win that is key and the world markets are not convinced by the Tory economic policies or in the personnel who are leading them.

 

[coventrygull]

BBC NEWS | UK | Jack Jones 'worked for KGB' claim
TGWU leader Jack Jones was in contact with KGB, says MI5 book - Times Online
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm

You reveal your lack of understanding of the Soviet policy of attempting to destabilise western society through various means during the cold war.

The Americans would never consider destabilising countries would they

Operation Gladio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

BBC NEWS | UK | Jack Jones 'worked for KGB' claim
TGWU leader Jack Jones was in contact with KGB, says MI5 book - Times Online
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/446305.stm

You reveal your lack of understanding of the Soviet policy of attempting to destabilise western society through various means during the cold war.

I know where you're coming from, it's an area I have some interest in.

But, I do find a lot of what the Soviets did, or tried to do, was at best fanciful. In fact some of their ideas were verging on pure fantasy and of little practical benefit.

.