Hope Powell Interview

[Easy 10]

It is exactly the same dilemma that faced Conference level men's players a few years back.

All time Eastleigh legend Andy Forbes was 30 years old when the club reached the Conference Prem and decided to go full-time.

He was forced to leave, as a year, maybe two, on whatever they were able to offer him was not worth him quitting his job as store manager of Currys in Andover. I think the Albion were also interested at one point, too, but again, two years of League One, Withdean era wages, were probably a drop in wages.

Yes, certainly not exclusive to the womens game. Its such a tough choice to have to make, as its obviously a relatively short career in football, and risky. At those levels you're probably not going to be earning much more than you would as a professional in a "conventional" career, if at all. Chase the dream, or play it safe ?

 

[The Large One]

I believe Lewes FC do pay both the men's and women's team the same wage, but the women's team play at a higher level than the men's team. It would be interesting to know how different the incomes are to the club for both teams and which generates more for the club in terms of gate receipts, sponsorship, etc....

For a comparison, Albion Women attract a slightly larger home crowd for their matches than Lewes men's 1st team do. That said, the Albion charged a fiver on the door (free for STH), where Lewes charge £12. That's based on the most recent season the Albion Women had, which finished in April 2016.

There has only been one Albion home women's match since - and that kicked off at the same time as the men playing Arsenal, so a comparison is hardly fair. The next home match is on Sunday 12 November - during a men's international break - we'll get to see how many the Albion women can attract then.

I'm off to the Women's cup match at Culver Road tomorrow. First time I'd have seen them play since the announcement of Hope Powell as manager.

 

[Easy 10]

If they got paid better and could be safely professional and receive higher levels of coaching etc etc then the standard would rise...more spectators would watch...more sponsorship...it would snowball. You have to start somewhere.
As for crown green bowls, I think £2m is laughable. At least £20m and a sponsorship deal with worthers original.

But it hasn't earned the right.

The mens game has developed over 150-odd years to get to where it is now. It's the national game and has a massive following. Womens football is nothing new, but professional womens football within an organised national league is a relatively new concept which is still developing. Its improving, but it doesn't happen overnight. And throwing £2.5bn at it from the next TV deal (as if), would not suddently result in a flourishing, more highly skilled womens game watched by millions both live and on TV.

If womens football is going to succeed then it has to happen organically over time, and it has to do it without being dependent on windfalls that it did not generate itself.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

What will be interesting is if the womens team are promoted to the WSL1, where players have to be professionals (its semi-pro at WSL2 and lower). I guess it depends what line of work they're already in, but according to that article, one of our players is a WPC for Kent Police. Bin your career off to chase your dream of being a professional footballer for a few years ? Not an easy choice to make. Then if you get relegated....

A career break would potentially be one way around that issue? (or at least for a season? - don't know what the max career break allowed is)

 

[Guinness Boy]

That is true. But I don't think people writing it off is going to help. Plus, the reason it has not developed over 150 years like mens football is...well...systematic sexism is society. We need to stop that for it to have any chance.

Well the next few years are going to be interesting.

I think the argument that women's football hasn't developed at the same rate due to sexism is lazy. It's just as valid to point out there isn't the interest.

As an example the secretary of my son's club is female & so are the many fundraisers who hold it together. The secretary's daughter plays (and is very good) and we have girls in other age groups too, though no more than two in any one group. One of our ex coaches has a girl in Brighton under 10s and she's shit hot, and we've had Brighton and Lancing women players come to coach.

So, based on that we tried to start a junior girls team, and it never got off the ground due to lack of interest. We ran Facebook campaigns, posters, asking round in schools and yet we couldn't have even run it as a 7 a side.

Just going from my mates Facebook when the under 10s play other girls they kick ass but when they played boys they lost.

I wasn't trying to be nasty or sexist on my other post but I fundamentally agree with [MENTION=70]Easy 10[/MENTION]. There isn't currently the interest to sustain professional female players on high wages. It needs to grow organically.

But that's happening. BBC are showing the game. We staged a women's game at the Amex. But it will only continue to grow if young girls are interested in numbers.

Right now they're not. There's no doubt a large element of sexism to it - dads forcing the daughter to ballet etc - but there's also a lack of interest. My daughter did mini under 6s at my club and has been to 2 different football holiday clubs. She has shin pads and a Brighton shirt. But she's just not interested and I'm at the point of giving up because I don't want to force it down her throat.


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[Guy Fawkes]

Well the next few years are going to be interesting.

I think the argument that women's football hasn't developed at the same rate due to sexism is lazy. It's just as valid to point out there isn't the interest.

You are aware that Women's football used to be more popular than men's game and that it was banned by the FA in 1921, with the ban lasting for 50 years until 1971 ?

Why was that if it wasn't due to sexism?

 

[The Large One]

The Norway FA will be paying their male and female international players the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...otball-pay-male-female-internationals-equally

 

[Guinness Boy]

You are aware that Women's football used to be more popular than men's game and that it was banned by the FA in 1921, with the ban lasting for 50 years until 1971 ?

Why was that if it wasn't due to sexism?

You are aware 1971 was 46 years ago?


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[The Large One]

You are aware 1971 was 46 years ago?

If you've had a ban in place for 50 years - what an appalling concept - then repealing a law doesn't follow everyone will jump on the bandwagon and make it blossom. These things take generations to build. It's a societal attitude which needs to change, and unhealthy dose of sexism (some of which still permeates on here) isn't going to help it thrive.

The Sexual Offences Act of 1967 descriminalised homosexuality, but it doesn't follow (a) everyone agreed with it and (b) it allowed it to become the societal norm. Men's football, for one, is still struggling with the whole homosexuality issue - and that was 50 years ago.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If you've had a ban in place for 50 years - what an appalling concept - then repealing a law doesn't follow everyone will jump on the bandwagon and make it blossom. These things take generations to build. It's a societal attitude which needs to change, and unhealthy dose of sexism (some of which still permeates on here) isn't going to help it thrive.

The Sexual Offences Act of 1967 descriminalised homosexuality, but it doesn't follow (a) everyone agreed with it and (b) it allowed it to become the societal norm. Men's football, for one, is still struggling with the whole homosexuality issue - and that was 50 years ago.

I don't disagree with any of that.

However I don't think offering up a ban that ended when I was born explains why I can't get girls to join a progressive, inclusive club today.


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[Easy 10]

You are aware that Women's football used to be more popular than men's game and that it was banned by the FA in 1921, with the ban lasting for 50 years until 1971 ?

Why was that if it wasn't due to sexism?

By "more popular than the mens game" until it was banned in 1921, do you mean that more people were going to watch womens football than mens prior to the ban ?

I'd be interested to see the evidence of that.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

You are aware 1971 was 46 years ago?


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By "more popular than the mens game" until it was banned in 1921, do you mean that more people were going to watch womens football than mens prior to the ban ?

I'd be interested to see the evidence of that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33064421/the-secret-history-of-womens-football

 

[Easy 10]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33064421/the-secret-history-of-womens-football

With the not-so-slight slight caveat that the big crowds occurred while the mens game was suspended during the war then. Thats not to say it wasn't worthwhile, or that I agree with the FA's ban, but if womens football was running alongside mens football back then, as it is now, then I suspect the appetite for the mens game would far supercede the appetite for the womens.

 

[Guinness Boy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33064421/the-secret-history-of-womens-football

So you're comparing a game played during the Great War when all young men were in the trenches, and the two years after it, when most of them were dead, with Everton's attendance in 2014/15 in an all seated configuration of an old terraced ground?

Ever heard the phrase "comparing apples and oranges"?


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[McTavish]

You are aware that Women's football used to be more popular than men's game?

Not really true...there were big crowds for women's football during and just after the First World War and whilst there were some 50,000+ crowds for a small number of women's matches the men's game was always more popular.

It's a bit like saying that American Football is more popular in the UK than proper football because the Jacksonville Jaguars get better crowds at Wembley than England...

 

[Guy Fawkes]

With the not-so-slight slight caveat that the big crowds occurred while the mens game was suspended during the war then. Thats not to say it wasn't worthwhile, or that I agree with the FA's ban, but if womens football was running alongside mens football back then, as it is now, then I suspect the appetite for the mens game would far supercede the appetite for the womens.

Erm.... Weren't there still men's games on at the time which could have drawn these bigger crowds instead?

Between 1915 and 1919 competitive football was suspended in England. Many foots signed up to fight in the war and as a result many teams were depleted, and fielded guest players instead. The Football League and FA Cup were suspended and in their place regional league competitions were set up; appearances in these tournaments do not count in players' official records.

There was still men's football being played

 

[The Large One]

I don't disagree with any of that.

However I don't think offering up a ban that ended when I was born explains why I can't get girls to join a progressive, inclusive club today.

Because you're only looking at one aspect of it. You're making out that because no ban has been in place that it should all be OK.

I'll put it to you that its a societal issue - worst of all especially with the archaic attitude of those running the game - which has hindered its progress. Girls have been told football was a 'nasty, boys' game', 'you should be a secretary or a nurse...', 'you will have children, of course you can't play football...'.

It's only since men's football cleaned up its act in this country 20-odd years ago that has seen the rise of women as spectators, and by natural progression, as participants - especially among the younger females.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Because you're only looking at one aspect of it. You're making out that because no ban has been in place that it should all be OK.

I'll put it to you that its a societal issue - worst of all especially with the archaic attitude of those running the game - which has hindered its progress. Girls have been told football was a 'nasty, boys' game', 'you should be a secretary or a nurse...', 'you will have children, of course you can't play football...'.

It's only since men's football cleaned up its act in this country 20-odd years ago that has seen the rise of women as spectators, and by natural progression, as participants - especially among the younger females.

I'm not though. I understand there's massive sexism. But it's not that which makes my daughter find the game "boring, rough & too cold"


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[Guy Fawkes]

What it does show was there were crowds who were willing to go and watch it in great numbers (even with the war on) - The crowd was 53,00 for the women's game on Boxing day at Goodison in 1920 and i am pretty sure the war had finished by then. This means that even with the men's game returning, there was still a demand for women's football

The ban stopped it developing alongside the men's game and led to if lagging a long way behind as they had to play on village greens and alike instead.

Other countries have a lot of support and a big audience for the women's game but it tends to be easily dismissed in this country

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2017/mar/20/offside-play-female-footballers-banned-fa

 

[The Large One]

With the not-so-slight slight caveat that the big crowds occurred while the mens game was suspended during the war then. Thats not to say it wasn't worthwhile, or that I agree with the FA's ban, but if womens football was running alongside mens football back then, as it is now, then I suspect the appetite for the mens game would far supercede the appetite for the womens.

I'm sure it would, but not to the extent it has now.

Men's tennis is more popular than women's - but not to the same extent as men's and women's football, and I don't recall women's tennis being banned. In fact, they're a result of what happens when you actively promote these sports nationally. Women's football simply hasn't had that coverage, and now the top level of men's football is in the stratosphere publicity-wise, so women's football starts from so far back.

Put it this way - many women's matches are now getting the increased crowds of similar size to Conference matches, mostly because it's finally being publicised as a serious sport, where fewer and fewer people are frowning upon the notion of women playing football.