[News] Hope everyone has their thoughts and prayers ready ..........again

[Easy 10]

Trump's played a blinder. Ramped up the rhetoric, and now he's whipped up some redneck into a killing spree on hispanics close to the border. Forget "the wall", just keep repeating racist bile against immigrants, and the good ol' boys will take up their constitutional right to bear arms and start with the "cleansing".

Nice one Donald. Making 'merica great again. Any more children in holding pens ? Keep that up too. Good job.

 

[Stat Brother]

England and Wales I hope you're not missing out Scotland to back up your point? If so, you should be a politician.

Didn't Glasgow have some sort of knife related murder record higher than any other city in Europe recently? I'm pretty sure that's same year it got friendliest city in Europe too. I remember Kevin Bridges making a joke out of it too.

But yeah England & wales....

You're a piece of work aren't you.

It's England and Wales because of the nature of their police forces and how they report their crimes, just how it's always been.
Scotland don't come into it, never have done, but I guess you already knew that.


Ten charts on the rise of knife crime in England and Wales
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42749089

UK knife crime: The first 100 fatal stabbings of 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48186035

(The 100 came up in May not June).

 

[DumLum]

Well, as it was apparently a race-hate related crime, that probably is relevant.

I should have been more specific. It was the Ohio victims. Motive is not clear.

 

[Blue3]

Trump tweeted his thoughts and prayers.

14 minutes later he tweeted congratulating a UFC fighter on his recent win.

He's mentally ill.

If this is factually true then it shows at the very least a lack of empathy

 

[Stat Brother]

If this is factually true then it shows at the very least a lack of empathy

The was out hitting a few balls on the golf course a few hours later.

 

[Megazone]

You're a piece of work aren't you.

It's England and Wales because of the nature of their police forces and how they report their crimes, just how it's always been.
Scotland don't come into it, never have done, but I guess you already knew that.


Ten charts on the rise of knife crime in England and Wales
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42749089

UK knife crime: The first 100 fatal stabbings of 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48186035

(The 100 came up in May not June).

Yes but the UK (England & Wales included) has a city which recently had more knife murders than any other city in Europe and yet you're mocking people who've got a concern for the dangers of knife crime here by purposely not even including Scotland as part of the UK and making up some bullshit kingdom called England & Wales (BBC propaganda). Even worse you're claiming anyone who's got a concern for the rise in knife crime here (London's knife crime has risen by 40% in just the last 5 years) is doing this country a disservice. IT's obvious all you're interesting in doing is competing with the US and showing how much better and safer it is here which shows what a piece of work you really are. I couldn't give a shit what Trump has got to with what's going on over here and I really think it's disgusting that we use the US crime and miurder issues to feel good about our own. any sharp rise in something negative needs to be a concern.

Give it a break mate and go play your computer games you're so desperate to defend.

 

[Triggaaar]

The irony is of course that knife killings are higher in the US than UK, by population and of course in total. To be crystal clear on this; you are more likely to be stabbed to death in the US than in the UK.

I doubt it, since I live over here.

 

[Triggaaar]

If this is factually true then it shows at the very least a lack of empathy

Maybe he was empathetic for 10 minutes. 30 seconds for each person who died, so not all bad.

 

[The_Viper]

Trump's played a blinder. Ramped up the rhetoric, and now he's whipped up some redneck into a killing spree on hispanics close to the border. Forget "the wall", just keep repeating racist bile against immigrants, and the good ol' boys will take up their constitutional right to bear arms and start with the "cleansing".

Nice one Donald. Making 'merica great again. Any more children in holding pens ? Keep that up too. Good job.

The lad who killed 9 in Ohio was a left wing lad who supported the democratic party.

Perhaps instead of politicising these mindless killings like utter scummers we should note that society as a whole needs to do better in bringing these people out of their holes, specifically young men and integrate them into society. Availability of mental health services in the US is atrocious, people are more likely to be ostracised and ridiculed in todays society as opposed to helped. They go to their safe space online somewhere, post how they feel and get radicalised on those same websites because society told them to **** off.


We. Must. Do. Better.

Alternatively we could just kick off about their political affiliations, try and score some points and eagerly await the next one to see which 'side' they're on.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Very good stats which prove that making guns illegal would reduce gun killings. Thanks for putting in the time to share the info. You can't argue with it.
But it doesn't answer my original question which was- why weren't these mass shootings as regular in the States as they are now when guns were still legal back then? I genuinely would like to know. Has there been some sort of recent leniency with people being able to get guns? What's the difference between now and 2010 in relation to their gun laws in the Sates?

People are just more angry nowadays

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[FatSuperman]

Yes but the UK (England & Wales included) has a city which recently had more knife murders than any other city in Europe and yet you're mocking people who've got a concern for the dangers of knife crime here by purposely not even including Scotland as part of the UK and making up some bullshit kingdom called England & Wales (BBC propaganda)

To be fair, it's not the BBC or Stat doing that, it's just the fact that the crime statistics are recorded by separate bodies for these things. In fact, Scotland has a different standard (Scottish Crime Recording Standard) to England & Wales (National Crime Recording Standard). So given this, they are not directly comparable and must be reported separately.

 

[FatSuperman]

But it doesn't answer my original question which was- why weren't these mass shootings as regular in the States as they are now when guns were still legal back then? I genuinely would like to know. Has there been some sort of recent leniency with people being able to get guns? What's the difference between now and 2010 in relation to their gun laws in the States?

I think the statistics show that the number of mass shootings as a percentage of the population isn't really changing, the outcomes are just getting far deadlier. From a statistical measurement perspective, mass shootings are actually rare - as ridiculous as that sounds. If you account for population changes, the average, annual number of mass shootings per 100 million people is consistently around 1 and 1.5, since the mid-70s. In the late 80's and early 90's, the number of victims killed was trending up, so the federal ban on expanded magazines and assault rifles was enacted - this was 1994. It expired 20 years later, in 2004. The eagle-eyed among us might notice the victim rate 'creeping' up again.


Incidents of mass shootings per year, per 100m people




Victims of mass shootings per year, per 100m people

 

[Megazone]

To be fair, it's not the BBC or Stat doing that, it's just the fact that the crime statistics are recorded by separate bodies for these things. In fact, Scotland has a different standard (Scottish Crime Recording Standard) to England & Wales (National Crime Recording Standard). So given this, they are not directly comparable and must be reported separately.

Okay, fair enough. I didn't know that so I apologise Stat for that. I was wrong

but I still think it's appalling that we're using US crime and murder statistics to feel good about our own problems when knife crime has risen dramatically in London of recent. I hope the US aren't doing the same in comparing their murder records with say Jamaica's or Honduras to excuse their own issues, because that's basically what we're doing with the US murder statistics to play down our own problems which can only cause ignorance to an issue which needs addressing. Forget what Trump has said about the knife crime in London (who gives a shit?) It's a concern because what will London be like in say 30 years if these knife crimes keep rising at the rate they have over the last 5 years?

 

[Megazone]

I think the statistics show that the number of mass shootings as a percentage of the population isn't really changing, the outcomes are just getting far deadlier. From a statistical measurement perspective, mass shootings are actually rare - as ridiculous as that sounds. If you account for population changes, the average, annual number of mass shootings per 100 million people is consistently around 1 and 1.5, since the mid-70s. In the late 80's and early 90's, the number of victims killed was trending up, so the federal ban on expanded magazines and assault rifles was enacted - this was 1994. It expired 20 years later, in 2004. The eagle-eyed among us might notice the victim rate 'creeping' up again.


Incidents of mass shootings per year, per 100m people
View attachment 113817



Victims of mass shootings per year, per 100m people
View attachment 113818

Bloody hell. I didn't realise how high the mass public shooting rate was back in the early and late 90's n the US. Jesus.
I suppose now we have more international based news stories due to things like the internet and people being able to film these murderous events with modern day mobile phones, it probably just feels like this current era has exploded with all these public mass shootings over there, which your stats prove isn't the case.

but again, thanks for putting in the time in sharing factual information which proves and helps raise awareness on this matter.

 

[TheJasperCo]

The media does though.

Be angry about The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Express etc. They have access to millions of people and preach hate every day.

They cause real deaths, all the time. Every ****ing day. Get pissed off about reality.

Not kids playing games

Disagree with you there man; with that argument, you've just shot yourself in the foot (so to speak). Millions of people read those media outlets and don't become violent maniacs.

Also, I would add that children are more impressionable when they're younger. Children are less likely to read newspapers, and I think the proportion of adults who regularly read those papers who are driven to kill or main is vanishingly thin.

I agree with everything you've said on this thread up til then.

 

[Klaas]

The lad who killed 9 in Ohio was a left wing lad who supported the democratic party.

Perhaps instead of politicising these mindless killings like utter scummers we should note that society as a whole needs to do better in bringing these people out of their holes, specifically young men and integrate them into society. Availability of mental health services in the US is atrocious, people are more likely to be ostracised and ridiculed in todays society as opposed to helped. They go to their safe space online somewhere, post how they feel and get radicalised on those same websites because society told them to **** off.


We. Must. Do. Better.

Alternatively we could just kick off about their political affiliations, try and score some points and eagerly await the next one to see which 'side' they're on.

Take your own advice?

The El Paso killer literally wrote a manifesto which the police have described as racist and anti-immigrant. It's crystal clear what his intentions were.

The Ohio killer? A left wing democrat you say? Where do you get this information from? I've read plenty of similar stuff but it's all been from dodgy as **** right wing nut jobs on the net spreading rumour. Got any credible sources on his political leanings and their relevance to him going on a murder spree?

 

[FatSuperman]

Bloody hell. I didn't realise how high the mass public shooting rate was back in the early 90's in the US. Jesus.
I suppose now we have more international based news stories due to things like the internet and people being able to film these murderous events with modern day mobile phones, it probably just feels like this current era has exploded with all these public mass shootings over there, which the stats prove isn't the case.

but again, thanks for putting in the time in sharing factual information which proves and helps raise awareness on this matter.

I think most people are with you on this Mega - we all 'feel' like it's getting much worse, and by the number of victims it definitely is - I personally think that is due to the loosening of gun control laws, and I think the patchy data supports that (and the weapons used in these murders). Instinctively, I feel like there might be some media contagion effect as well, where these people are reading about it more, and thinking about it more. There are a few other interesting points - the age of shooters is trending lower and the number of mass shootings at schools is increasing. I think this is due to the increased access to guns, and the fact that younger people have less developed conflict resolution skills, etc. And less time to have had mental issues identified and addressed.

When Australia bought in their stronger laws on gun control, 'successful' suicides dropped by something like 80%. I suppose when you use a gun, you can't very get saved and change your mind, like many other methods. Another indicator for me that gun availability has a very significant effect on these crimes, amongst other things.


To your other point on comparing crime in different nations, I agree that it's not relevant in terms of dealing with our own issues - it shouldn't matter what others are suffering. I think it's useful though, in order to gain an appreciation of where other developed nations sit, to see how far out we are, and perhaps where we could improve. I don't think the government and police force are particularly saying 'Oh, we're better than the US, we can chill out'. But they probably would act with more determination if we were the murder capital of Europe - bad press and all that.

 

[Megazone]

The lad who killed 9 in Ohio was a left wing lad who supported the democratic party.

Perhaps instead of politicising these mindless killings like utter scummers we should note that society as a whole needs to do better in bringing these people out of their holes, specifically young men and integrate them into society. Availability of mental health services in the US is atrocious, people are more likely to be ostracised and ridiculed in todays society as opposed to helped. They go to their safe space online somewhere, post how they feel and get radicalised on those same websites because society told them to **** off.


We. Must. Do. Better.

Alternatively we could just kick off about their political affiliations, try and score some points and eagerly await the next one to see which 'side' they're on.

I couldn't agree more. Great post.

 

[FatSuperman]

Disagree with you there man; with that argument, you've just shot yourself in the foot (so to speak). Millions of people read those media outlets and don't become violent maniacs.

Also, I would add that children are more impressionable when they're younger. Children are less likely to read newspapers, and I think the proportion of adults who regularly read those papers who are driven to kill or main is vanishingly thin.

I agree with everything you've said on this thread up til then.

There are lots of commentators saying that Trump is actually promoting this sort of thing, with his refusal to condemn incendiary talk in the strongest terms. The El Paso shooter used lots of similar language to Trump, about invasions etc. Coupled with Trump attacking black congresswomen, I would say that he is a very dangerous person to have at the helm, at a time like this. Christ, he wouldn't even condemn those white nationalists a couple of years ago! "There are very fine people on both sides"

 

[Triggaaar]

you are more likely to be stabbed to death in the US than in the UK.

I doubt it, since I live over here.

I now regret my post. I can see myself popping to the US on holiday in 5 years and getting stabbed. Let's hope it's not fatal, so I can laugh at the irony.