[Misc] Hate Crime

[Herr Tubthumper]

Er, yes as I literally already outlined in detail above on the matter of evidence in response to another post, that seemed not to take that into consideration.

One can not assume that just because the police have reported this particular incident as a hate crime, it will automatically be considered at trial stage.

First I was replying to someone else. Is your second point not obvious? The police/CPS have evidence and will report and charge someone accordingly. This will then be taken to trial to see if it’s valid.

Further, the police did not report this as a hate crime.
“Cheshire Police initially said there was no evidence Brianna's killing was hate-related but on Tuesday detectives said all lines of inquiry were "being explored", including hate crime.”

I’m not sure of the point you’re trying to make. Maybe I misunderstand?

 

[GingerBeerMan]

My issue is, if you read back to my original posts and the thread generally (you should), the reporting of these crimes. The very mention of someone being trans, or a POC, implies hate crime regardless of circumstance.

This isn't true at all. All the young black men killed in London aren't reported as hate crimes.

 

[Hamilton]

My issue is, if you read back to my original posts and the thread generally (you should), the reporting of these crimes. The very mention of someone being trans, or a POC, implies hate crime regardless of circumstance.

No it does not and no it has not. I think that’s an inference you are drawing. Trans people get killed for many reasons. If they are killed for being trans then that is a hate crime. If they are killed because of a crime of passion, that is not hate crime.

 

[sydney]

An innocent 16 year old boy was stabbed to death the other day. Didn’t even make the news headlines with the BBC, whilst the Brianna Ghey story had three separate articles.

The difference being that Ghey’s case was more newsworthy as she was transgender.

Both are tragedies and deserved equal coverage, which they did not receive.

normal kids getting stabbed is old hat , trans kids are all the rage .........makes me spew to be honest, the media is pulling the strings so hard it's ridiculous.

 

[sydney]

This isn't true at all. All the young black men killed in London aren't reported as hate crimes.

is that because they are usually gang related ...ie killed by other black kids...??

 

[The Clamp]

normal kids getting stabbed is old hat , trans kids are all the rage .........makes me spew to be honest, the media is pulling the strings so hard it's ridiculous.

Weird! I’ve heard about lots of recent stabbings involving victims from all walks of life.

I’m pretty sure I read about them in the media.

 

[Braggfan]

The murder of a child is tragic. It isn’t a sliding scale of tragedy based on what they identify as, in my mind. Hate crimes are tragic. Random attacks are tragic. It’s not a competition to decide which is most newsworthy.

I don’t want news to be editorialised by trusted sources, I just want the facts.

Labeling something a hate crime isn't about creating a competition or making one crime more newsworthy. Hate crimes arent just about an individual victim, in a sense the individual attack can been seen as an attack on a group of people, usually a minority of some kind. Recognising it as a hate crime, means means you an attempt to prevent future crimes by recognising early behaviour. Programmes like Prevent work in this way.

 

[Zeberdi]

First I was replying to someone else

Apologies- I wasn’t aware it was a private conversation

Is your second point not obvious? The police/CPS have evidence and will report and charge someone accordingly. This will then be taken to trial to see if it’s valid.

No - otherwise I wouldn’t have explained it - I was responding to an earlier post that assumed it would automatically be decided in court whether a hate crime occurred - there seems to be an assumption that if the Police report a crime as a hate crime that it will automatically go to trial. This is not the case. While there may be some evidence to suggest an incident is a hate crime, the evidence must be enough that the police and COS jointly believe would have a good chance of conviction or it will not be included in the trial docket.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Apologies- I wasn’t aware it was a private conversation

I said this to provide context. I’m done discussing this any further.

 

[Weststander]

For argument’s sake, in your entirely hypothetical scenario, what if the person being mouthy in a kebab shop were, for example, trans?

The headlines would read “Trans woman murdered in kebab shop” and it would be classed by definition as a hate crime by the wider public, even if not the police (who would investigate and find the person was being mouthy, and it had nothing to do with them being trans).

My argument is, of course, completely irrelevant bullshit responding to be an equally irrelevant bullshit what-if scenario.

The police and then CPS would look at whether there's evidence of a hate crime per various statutes
https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime
as part of the attack or a motivation for the attack, through the usual examination of evidence, witness statements, sound recordings, mobile phones.

 

[Weststander]

Some good stuff in here, on the background to hate crime legislation, answering some of the (rhetorical ) questions in this thread.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...file/1041169/Hate-crime-report-accessible.pdf

Stephen Lawrence crops up.

Let's not just focus on murders. Before the legislation, emboldened bigots could get away with many things as just "banter".