Has TM been playing us all?

[drew]

I can see the underlying theme. At the end of the day, I suspect any politician with any intelligence is not going to want to have the Brexit negotiations on their CV as leader because we aren't going to get a better deal than we have at the moment. After it is signed sealed and delivered then they might want to spearhead trade negotiations with other countries and try and gain some kudos from that.

 

[Jim D]

I would like to see some sort of official statistic as to how many more 18-24 year olds voted this time. Then comparing turn outs from last elections we could see if the OAP dropped as you say. I don't doubt that it did somewhat Jim.

Just checked 2015 - 66.1%
2017 - 68.7%

Over 70% for the 18 - 24 years olds.

There was a woman on the Daily Politics today who said that initial findings are that the OAPs stayed at home in their thousands.

 

[drew]

The 'dementia tax' was sensible (set to allow more cash to keep) but without the higher level cap it was disastrous and a certain vote loser. Likewise the winter fuel meanstest and removal of the triple lock were aimed directly at the core Tory voters. I simply don't believe that they didn't expect this to blow up in their faces - and if they didn't then it raises other serious questions about competency. The net result was that hundreds of thousands of OAP Tory voters (even millions) stayed at home.

It was far from sensible. As they pointed out on LBC, it is basically an inheritance tax but only applicable to those that get ill (and for that matter, only with certain illnesses). Why should it not apply to cancer sufferers? Why are they more deserving than those suffering from dementia?

 

[Jim D]

It was far from sensible. As they pointed out on LBC, it is basically an inheritance tax but only applicable to those that get ill (and for that matter, only with certain illnesses). Why should it not apply to cancer sufferers? Why are they more deserving than those suffering from dementia?

It was put forward as a way of getting people who needed long term care at home to contribute toward that care. At the moment the same arrangement is used for those that go into a home. I believe it was a sensible attempt to get to grips with a situation that was only going to get worse - especially as no payment would be made until after death. Also, with a £100k lower limit, that would take a great many out of payment altogether (assuming 2 people living in a £200k house with joint ownership). It's only those in London and the South East who would really lose out.

 

[TottonSeagull]

Now I'm definitely not a conspiracy theorist. I believe that man did land on the moon, there was nobody on the grassy knoll and we are not being run by reptiles. However, given all the mess we're now faced with over the Government and Brexit, I'm starting to wonder if these last 2 months haven't been, up to a point, pre-planned. Think about this: Dave Davis realises that Brexit will be much tougher than previously thought and likely to bring the government in charge down when the public see what we're faced with. He tells TM. What can they do? Well, as thing stand then the Tories are going to be firmly in control and therefore responsible. The only thing to do is call a snap election and try to get out of power. That seems impossible given that they are double-digits clear in the polls. But what if they made such a mess of the electioneering that people lost confidence in them and had to turn elsewhere? Given that they lurched from one disaster to another (U-turn after U-turn, alienating the core support of OAPs and middle-class parents, refusing to appear at debates, looking very uncertain and definitely not 'strong and stable') I just wonder if this was part of a pre-determined plan. And the fact is that it could very well have worked if it wasn't for Labour's 'promise the Earth' manifesto - and Diane Abbott.

OK, so it's a bit far-fetched - but I can't think of any other reason why the most efficient political machine that this country has ever seen suddenly became as unstable as a clown's car and as believable as Donald Trump in the witness box. Think about it for a second or two.

What a lot of old tosh! .................. how can you not believe there wasn't a shooter on the grassy knoll. As for the rest .... meh!

 

[lawros left foot]

Since austerity started the OAP s are s the only section of society not to be targeted apart from the very rich, for cuts, more tax, etc, in fact theyve done pretty well so far. I really agree with the Cons that the winter fuel tax should be means tested, and some form of 'dementia tax 'should be implemented, however, having worked in an old peoples care home , the amount of profit from these places is exorbitant. Thatcher should never have shut the Council old peoples homes, another case of knowing the cost of everything,and the value of nothing.

 

[drew]

It was put forward as a way of getting people who needed long term care at home to contribute toward that care. At the moment the same arrangement is used for those that go into a home. I believe it was a sensible attempt to get to grips with a situation that was only going to get worse - especially as no payment would be made until after death. Also, with a £100k lower limit, that would take a great many out of payment altogether (assuming 2 people living in a £200k house with joint ownership). It's only those in London and the South East who would really lose out.

Why only apply it to certain illnesses then? Another example of how we look down our nose at those that are suffering. If we make people pay for their care at home why don't we do the same for those that get care at hospital.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Don't be ridiculous. This woman was in it to win it.

Let's not be too harsh. One of the best times I ever had about 20 years ago involved running through a wheat field.

Mind, it was after I'd been up all night at my mate's house party in the Peak District and was in his garden which backed onto a field.

I was totally off it on 2ci (and all the usual stuff) and when the sun came up, it became clear that there was a massive field of huge hay bails in front of us. You know those huge round bails that you can climb on or hide behind etc? I was with two really attractive birds so we ran into the field, climbed on the bails, jumped between them, laid in the sun off our faces and then....

Oh, this isn't the same is it. The dull witch.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why only apply it to certain illnesses then? Another example of how we look down our nose at those that are suffering. If we make people pay for their care at home why don't we do the same for those that get care at hospital.

Exactly. Get cancer and all the treatment is free, get dementia and pay for it.

 

[papajaff]

Blimey just what we need - another politics thread.

I would say 'why open it then' but I did because I thought it was the possibility of a new signing.

Sick of basstad politics now.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I know it's all heresy, but one of the main themes I'm getting here is that no-one wants to deal with Brexit, despite it being 'the will of the people'. Surely it's the job of the incumbent party to get on with it. If the person at the top of the tree doesn't want to get stuck in, then they should vacate the position for someone who does.

To be honest, if they can't get their house in order BEFORE the actual talks start, what HOPE is there of not being royally shafted by 27 other countries?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

What a lot of old tosh! .................. how can you not believe there wasn't a shooter on the grassy knoll. As for the rest .... meh!

Absolutely. Triangulated cross-fire.
Oswald shooting like a maniac from the School Book Depository, hired gunmen from the grassy knoll and the secret service agent , in the car behind the President, accidently shooting him in the back of the head. Johnson was ducking down before any shots were fired and the presidential limousine slowed down, as shots rang out.
The moon landing was all filmed in Arizona and reptilian influence is everywhere. Shape shifting abounds.

 

[blue'n'white]

I think she loused up because she's got a wooden personality, cannot think on her feet and was trying to deliver a very poor manifesto that she doesn't really believe in 100%
Corbyn is a natural rabble rouser and energised "da youf" because they thought they'd get away without paying for university tuition

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I know it's all heresy, but one of the main themes I'm getting here is that no-one wants to deal with Brexit, despite it being 'the will of the people'. Surely it's the job of the incumbent party to get on with it. If the person at the top of the tree doesn't want to get stuck in, then they should vacate the position for someone who does.

To be honest, if they can't get their house in order BEFORE the actual talks start, what HOPE is there of not being royally shafted by 27 other countries?

But to be fair, they were getting on with it.
Article 50 was triggered in March, so we are already nearly three months down the line with our exit. There have been a number of meetings already with leading European officials to sound out possible deals and numerous contacts worldwide to establish new global arrangements. There is a lot going on behind the scenes which the public are not aware of.
May did want to get stuck in. She just made the wrong call in expecting the electorate to rubber-stamp her plans.

 

[BrianWade4]

Bloody Hell...what utter bollocks.

Particularly the part where you say 'the most efficient political machine that this country has ever seen'.

Just...what the actual f***?

I knew the OP wasn't serious when I read the Diane Abbot point

 

[Jim D]

Exactly. Get cancer and all the treatment is free, get dementia and pay for it.

The point about cancer is that the treatment period is generally short and normally provided in hospital. Of course, hospice care is available, but that is only for the last few weeks, when there's nothing more to be done. Regarding dementia, this can go on for years - decades even - and the sufferer needs constant supervision.

 

[knocky1]

Putting a few posts together it seems that the PM is demented and the country is paying for it. Not what she originally planned in her manifesto.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

But to be fair, they were getting on with it.
Article 50 was triggered in March, so we are already nearly three months down the line with our exit. There have been a number of meetings already with leading European officials to sound out possible deals and numerous contacts worldwide to establish new global arrangements. There is a lot going on behind the scenes which the public are not aware of.
May did want to get stuck in. She just made the wrong call in expecting the electorate to rubber-stamp her plans.

True that they have made certain inroads, it was more a response to some of the comments on here about the unwillingness to take responsibility. One of the issues I have is with the timing (and, to a certain extent, the cost) of an election so close to the beginning of the talks. To me there is an argument to say she should have been putting Brexit before anything else, including her majority (or what she THOUGHT would be her majority). I know it's not as simplistic as that and she had her reasons, but she royally messed up, I'm afraid.