Yes, this really winds me up. The pundits never talk about whether the frame is actually the right one. Sometimes it looks like there's already a couple of centimetres between the foot and the ball, or the ball is clearly still being kicked.
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[Albion] Gross goal offside?
- Thread starter eastterracemike
- Start date
Haha, true. I wouldn't have minded if I was watching some dodgy stream I found on Reddit, but this was the genuine Fubo broadcast in Canada.
albionalex
Well-known member
The VAR Review: Why wasn't Havertz's penalty overturned?
Should the VAR have got involved after Kai Havertz was awarded a penalty? Why wasn't Bournemouth's goal awarded? That and more in the VAR Review.
VAR review: This looked close, with the cut of the grass making it look like the ball would be level with Groß.
Yet that was misleading, as the ball was level with the line of the 6-yard box, while the boot of Aston Villa defender Diego Carlos was marginally in front.
The VAR, Michael Oliver, still had to check both the ball and Carlos to be sure Groß was in front of both, which led to a longer review. It's the kind of situation that semi-automated offside technology wouldn't completely fix; the ball isn't tracked, so the VAR would need to use the old system, which is still in place as a backup.
There was a clear gap between the attacking and defensive lines. While the vertical line to Groß may not appear to be straight, this is due the camera angles as the tech is mapped to the pitch.
Good picture that. So, the ball was actually behind the front of the defender's foot - the one next to Gross! It really didn't look like that.The VAR Review: Why wasn't Havertz's penalty overturned?
Should the VAR have got involved after Kai Havertz was awarded a penalty? Why wasn't Bournemouth's goal awarded? That and more in the VAR Review.www.espn.com
VAR review: This looked close, with the cut of the grass making it look like the ball would be level with Groß.
Yet that was misleading, as the ball was level with the line of the 6-yard box, while the boot of Aston Villa defender Diego Carlos was marginally in front.
The VAR, Michael Oliver, still had to check both the ball and Carlos to be sure Groß was in front of both, which led to a longer review. It's the kind of situation that semi-automated offside technology wouldn't completely fix; the ball isn't tracked, so the VAR would need to use the old system, which is still in place as a backup.
There was a clear gap between the attacking and defensive lines. While the vertical line to Groß may not appear to be straight, this is due the camera angles as the tech is mapped to the pitch.
Clearly offside then - as the Knee of Gross is well forward of his foot.
Are we really in a situation where people are criticising VAR because it got a decision right?
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Silly analogy and incomparable. A vehicle travelling at 30 miles an hour and a pedestrian stepping off the pavement?
Result is serious injury or death.
Yes was interesting, with that situation I could see why that took some time. Their dialog seemed ok to me... We can all argue about the subjective parts, which for me were:
- drawing a line down from the guy's back (baggy shirt?
)- where was the end of that shoulder
- red or yellow card
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Clearly a wrong decision? On what criteria? What are you measuring and with what tolerance/margin of error to decide whether it is clearly wrong?
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Semi-automated offside relies on a sensor in the ball. It is tracked.The VAR Review: Why wasn't Havertz's penalty overturned?
Should the VAR have got involved after Kai Havertz was awarded a penalty? Why wasn't Bournemouth's goal awarded? That and more in the VAR Review.
VAR review: This looked close, with the cut of the grass making it look like the ball would be level with Groß.
Yet that was misleading, as the ball was level with the line of the 6-yard box, while the boot of Aston Villa defender Diego Carlos was marginally in front.
The VAR, Michael Oliver, still had to check both the ball and Carlos to be sure Groß was in front of both, which led to a longer review. It's the kind of situation that semi-automated offside technology wouldn't completely fix; the ball isn't tracked, so the VAR would need to use the old system, which is still in place as a backup.
There was a clear gap between the attacking and defensive lines. While the vertical line to Groß may not appear to be straight, this is due the camera angles as the tech is mapped to the pitch.
brighton_tom
Well-known member
- Jul 23, 2008
- 5,511
No problem with it being called offside, as it clearly was, but it just took soooo long to decide what was quite a simple thing. Utterly boring to sit there for nearly 5 mins like that, given we were building momentum in the game.
Morvangull
Well-known member
There should be no need to measure, If the VAR official looking at the still picture does not see a reason to change the on field decision. This would make VAR decisions much speedier and more consistent to the roots of football that was down to the view of the officials at the time. To have to draw lines on a still picture that may not even be at the correct instant the ball was struck is, I believe, unreliable.
The system used at the world Cup uses a sensor in the ball, however the Premier League (and I believe other domestic leagues using semi automated offsides) doesn't and relies on the cameras and AI to track the ball.
The Premier League's getting semi-automated VAR offside -- what's so good about it?
Are the days of waiting an interminable amount of time for an offside decision over? Semi-automated VAR offside is about to arrive in the Premier League.
www.espn.co.uk
I think we should mow wavy lines and arcs accross the pitch, that should help VAR
if they can't project line properly ( they can't) they shouldn't make shit up.
Gross was offside with respect to the AV defenders, but I think he was in line with the ball . . . . His torso, feet and head.
those lines, particularly the red one is absolute horse shit.The VAR Review: Why wasn't Havertz's penalty overturned?
Should the VAR have got involved after Kai Havertz was awarded a penalty? Why wasn't Bournemouth's goal awarded? That and more in the VAR Review.
VAR review: This looked close, with the cut of the grass making it look like the ball would be level with Groß.
Yet that was misleading, as the ball was level with the line of the 6-yard box, while the boot of Aston Villa defender Diego Carlos was marginally in front.
The VAR, Michael Oliver, still had to check both the ball and Carlos to be sure Groß was in front of both, which led to a longer review. It's the kind of situation that semi-automated offside technology wouldn't completely fix; the ball isn't tracked, so the VAR would need to use the old system, which is still in place as a backup.
There was a clear gap between the attacking and defensive lines. While the vertical line to Groß may not appear to be straight, this is due the camera angles as the tech is mapped to the pitch.
if they can't project line properly ( they can't) they shouldn't make shit up.
Gross was offside with respect to the AV defenders, but I think he was in line with the ball . . . . His torso, feet and head.
sussex_guy2k2
Well-known member
- Jun 6, 2014
- 4,078
The biggest issue with this is the rule and where the lines are being drawn. They shouldn’t be trying to put imaginary lines for slightly sticking out body parts. It leaves far too much room for interpretation, as they have here. They’re essentially creating a situation where a bent knee is offside, yet his feet are on and behind the ball.The VAR Review: Why wasn't Havertz's penalty overturned?
Should the VAR have got involved after Kai Havertz was awarded a penalty? Why wasn't Bournemouth's goal awarded? That and more in the VAR Review.
VAR review: This looked close, with the cut of the grass making it look like the ball would be level with Groß.
Yet that was misleading, as the ball was level with the line of the 6-yard box, while the boot of Aston Villa defender Diego Carlos was marginally in front.
The VAR, Michael Oliver, still had to check both the ball and Carlos to be sure Groß was in front of both, which led to a longer review. It's the kind of situation that semi-automated offside technology wouldn't completely fix; the ball isn't tracked, so the VAR would need to use the old system, which is still in place as a backup.
There was a clear gap between the attacking and defensive lines. While the vertical line to Groß may not appear to be straight, this is due the camera angles as the tech is mapped to the pitch.
A simple way to solve this would be a line that is a foot’s width on the last foot of the defender and the front foot of the attacker. If they overlap, then it’s onside. You should be offside because your knee is bent or you have a toe slightly ahead of a defender’s heel.
CaptainDaveUK
Well-known member
- Oct 18, 2010
- 1,534
He looked offside, however I would happily do away with the drawing of lines on a freeze frame, as it is not an exact science. VAR should be able to watch a slow motion replay, say three times and then make a decision as if they were running the line. If they’re not sure the attacking player is offside then they don’t give it. Either that or we completely change the offside rule, because to the naked eye in real time a lot of these offsides would not be given.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
OK, ididnt know that. I hope it works.The system used at the world Cup uses a sensor in the ball, however the Premier League (and I believe other domestic leagues using semi automated offsides) doesn't and relies on the cameras and AI to track the ball.
The Premier League's getting semi-automated VAR offside -- what's so good about it?
Are the days of waiting an interminable amount of time for an offside decision over? Semi-automated VAR offside is about to arrive in the Premier League.www.espn.co.uk
albionalex
Well-known member
I believe he means the semi-automated offside only checks for where the players are in relation to each other, not in relation to the ball.
el punal
Well-known member
I said exactly that when it was deliberated by VAR. If it’s not clear and concise than the goal should stand. Having said that when we played Arsenal (away) two seasons ago Arsenal thought they had scored on the stroke of halftime through a header (Martinelli?). VAR took absolute ages to decide that was offside too. Just as well, we won 2-1.
- Mar 23, 2023
- 2,122
When we score we celebrate, if it then goes to var and is ruled to be a goal we celebrate again so that’s quite fun!