Greece - the drachma - devalue

[Steve.S]

How about the greeks go back to the |Dracma,And the Euros they have in their banks. Pay their debts off. Thats a joke.
We may disagree, however at the end of the day the Greeks will go back to the Dracma and the rest of Europe will have to deal with it. It would be better if they help the Greeks to make that tansition and give them a chance.

 

[beorhthelm]

...............

 

[Chicken Runner61]

The European Central Bank (ECB) is the central bank for the eurozone (euro area, the countries which have adopted the euro). One of the ECB’s important tasks is to set and implement European monetary policy. This includes the use of the interest rate tool. The main objective of the ECB is price stability, or an inflation level of maximum 2%, therefore they set the rates. In joining the euro each Member States has agreed to allow the ECB to act as an independent authority responsible for maintaining price stability through the implementation of monetary policy. This is the problem, the policy is being set by others. Lets give them control back

Bond market rates are not the same as central Bank interest rates. the fact we can print means bond holders only risk inflation, not default. while we wouldnt like inflation eating away the value, its better than getting nothing back.

Credit ratings have little to do with interest rates set by the ECB or the BOE and nothing to do with printing money except that if you can print your way out of trouble it helps to reboot your economy and thereby pay your debts.

Our credit rating was negative last time I looked so before you think that we are some economic miracle I would check how much our banks are owed by other banks who lent money to Greece Italy Spain etc etc.

Interest rates set by either the BOE or ECB are about as useful as a chocolate teapot at the moment and we need to be worried about how much we are borrowing on bonds rather than bank rates or even the the yields and interest rates on bonds.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

How about the greeks go back to the |Dracma,And the Euros they have in their banks. Pay their debts off. Thats a joke.
We may disagree, however at the end of the day the Greeks will go back to the Dracma and the rest of Europe will have to deal with it. It would be better if they help the Greeks to make that tansition and give them a chance.

Whilst I don't think you fully understand why your conclusion may be correct!

 

[Chicken Runner61]

doh, school boy error. point remains, a euro is exactly the same value no matter what country its nominally represents. thats the whole purpose of the single currency.

which is why you can't just reintroduce the drachma in two weeks. To reintroduce the drachma means you HAVE to replace the HELD Greek value Euros across the world.

You also have to remember despite it being a clown currency at the mo it was the worlds SECOND reserve currency at one point.

When the European Community was introduced there were no arrangements made for anyone to leave let alone to be able to go back to their own currency IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Its not that simple

 

[vegster]

So, its bad then ?

 

[beorhthelm]

which is why you can't just reintroduce the drachma in two weeks. To reintroduce the drachma means you HAVE to replace the HELD Greek value Euros across the world.

i can see what your trying to say, however most the "Greek" euros are in bank accounts and ledger sheets. the Greek issued notes/coins would mostly within greece and be swaped at the bank for drachma. notes out of the country would be a tiny % of issued, they could simply swap them for other nations (ie the holders resident nation). im not saying its simple, only that the banks and authorities have actually had months to plan for this and have done so, they reckon it can be done quite swiftly.

 

[Steve.S]

If the Greeks pull out as a last resort, then I would think everyone would be in trouble. I do not think anyone wants that. I think what some people are saying on here is that throwing money at the Greeks is not working. How much? Surely it would be better to help the Greeks return to the Dracma and give them sensible rates to pay back the loans. We will eventually get to a point where more money has been spent to keep an ideolgy going, then to let Greece go. How long can Europe keep on bailing out Greece

 

[Chicken Runner61]

i can see what your trying to say, however most the "Greek" euros are in bank accounts and ledger sheets. the Greek issued notes/coins would mostly within greece and be swaped at the bank for drachma. notes out of the country would be a tiny % of issued, they could simply swap them for other nations (ie the holders resident nation). im not saying its simple, only that the banks and authorities have actually had months to plan for this and have done so, they reckon it can be done quite swiftly.

You believe what the banks and authorities are telling you?!? that would be the same banks and authorities that got us in this mess, the same banks that lent money to these countries and then lent money from UK banks and lent them more and then gave them more from the ECB whilst forcing other to take 55%-78% haircut and knowing that even at the new rates the Greeks couldn't pay it back?

and you trust these people to exchange part of one currency for a new devalued one distributing it in two weeks to 12M people over many small islands covering about 51,000 sq miles without cocking it up massively probably leaving Greece with Civil War and ruin?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

If the Greeks pull out as a last resort, then I would think everyone would be in trouble. I do not think anyone wants that. I think what some people are saying on here is that throwing money at the Greeks is not working. How much? Surely it would be better to help the Greeks return to the Dracma and give them sensible rates to pay back the loans. We will eventually get to a point where more money has been spent to keep an ideolgy going, then to let Greece go. How long can Europe keep on bailing out Greece

Pay it back with what? taramasalata?

 

[Steve.S]

Pay it back with what? taramasalata?

What you are forgetting is that they are chucking money at a country, that can not afford to pay back. The solution at the moment is to keep giving the Greeks money, knowing full well that they are getting deeper and deeper into debt. How long for 10, 15 20 years or for ever, or until they eventually fold. What I think people are asking and me. Is stop throwing the money away and put it to good use. They are never to to survive in the Euro

 

[beorhthelm]

Pay it back with what? taramasalata?

presumably with the same economic output they intend to pay back their current debts.

you seem determined to see them collapse in crisis, rather than hope for the best for them.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

which is why you can't just reintroduce the drachma in two weeks. To reintroduce the drachma means you HAVE to replace the HELD Greek value Euros across the world.

You also have to remember despite it being a clown currency at the mo it was the worlds SECOND reserve currency at one point.

When the European Community was introduced there were no arrangements made for anyone to leave let alone to be able to go back to their own currency IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Its not that simple

Your not german by any chance are you,

 

[brunswick]

You believe what the banks and authorities are telling you?!?

you only just worked this out about beorhthelm?

 

[brunswick]

presumably with the same economic output they intend to pay back their current debts.

you seem determined to see them collapse in crisis, rather than hope for the best for them.

for me, crisis is what they want, all around europe....then the once again order out of chaos will come. this "crisis" is no accident, it was designed into it, you wait, in 3 or 4 months most of europe is going to get messy.

if one brings in a devalued currency (going to happen) then no one will be able to afford petrol and food = carnage. spain, portugal, ireland are all lined up next....all part of their master plan.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Your not german by any chance are you,

How is anything I have written pro German?

If the Greeks leave the Euro we are F****D for about 10 years

 

[Chicken Runner61]

presumably with the same economic output they intend to pay back their current debts.

you seem determined to see them collapse in crisis, rather than hope for the best for them.

The Germans are putting measures on Greece that are greater than were placed on Germany after the war. You want to leave the Greeks to rot "for the best" with a bankrupt drachma and you think I want to see them collapse?

Take a look at the graphs for bond spreads against Greek Car registrations and you can see where all the loans went and then look at where all those cars were made.

 

[Norman Potting]

for me, crisis is what they want, all around europe....then the once again order out of chaos will come. this "crisis" is no accident, it was designed into it, you wait, in 3 or 4 months most of europe is going to get messy.

if one brings in a devalued currency (going to happen) then no one will be able to afford petrol and food = carnage. spain, portugal, ireland are all lined up next....all part of their master plan.

I feel that I am playing with fire by asking this question but whose plan and what outcomes?

...Just off downstairs to get a beer, a cheese and pickle roll and maybe some pringles.

 

[brunswick]

I feel that I am playing with fire by asking this question but whose plan and what outcomes?

...Just off downstairs to get a beer, a cheese and pickle roll and maybe some pringles.

it would take to long here to walk you thro it, and in soundbites would sound "silly." follow your nose, make your own mind up, time will tell.

wow, what i would do now for one of those rolls - do you cheekily plonk a couple of those pringles in it too? yum.

ah, the outcome is probably something like this.......far down the line. but to join the dots, you would need to get crate of beer and more rolls n pringles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E

 

[beorhthelm]

for me, crisis is what they want, all around europe....then the once again order out of chaos will come. this "crisis" is no accident, it was designed into it, you wait, in 3 or 4 months most of europe is going to get messy.

if one brings in a devalued currency (going to happen) then no one will be able to afford petrol and food = carnage. spain, portugal, ireland are all lined up next....all part of their master plan.

ah yes of course, they planned a single currency only to wait 10 years then make it fail, taking several years to do that too. run off back to the conspiracy forums, grown ups having sensible debate here.