[News] Government tax credit cuts bill defeated in the House of Lords

[Pavilionaire]

In April 2016 the new dividend tax will kick in, affecting many owner managers of limited companies, an effective 4% tax rise for many hundreds of thousands of workers. I can't see Middle England taking this on the chin if the low paid dodge tax credit reform now.

To my mind this is the first real bit of austerity the government has tried to implement since the crash, and people don't like it.

 

[drew]

there was an election less than 6mths ago, cuts to budgets were mentioned.

Well that explains it then, thanks for clearing it up for the rest of us.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Here's a compromise. Pay working tax credit as vouchers rather than cash.

I'm still not convinced these payments go much further than funding a Sky TV subscription in an awful lot of cases.

They will be seriously affecting people earning from about £6,000 per annum. I think most people would struggle to buy a tv on that, let alone a Sky subscription.

It is the result of the Tories sticking to a ridiculous manifesto that they never thought they would have to enact because they didn't think they would win an outright majority.

And they are too effing stubborn, arrogant or whatever to seek to get their way out of it. I hope I am wrong on this last point for the sake of the people who will suffer if this goes through.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

In April 2016 the new dividend tax will kick in, affecting many owner managers of limited companies, an effective 4% tax rise for many hundreds of thousands of workers. I can't see Middle England taking this on the chin if the low paid dodge tax credit reform now.

To my mind this is the first real bit of austerity the government has tried to implement since the crash, and people don't like it.

Your mind seems to be seriously unobservant.

 

[5ways]

Not on this occasion, thank god for the House Of Lords, To lie time and time again and then go back on his word after the election and make the poorest even poorer is disgusting, it had to be stopped, although I do, in principal agree with you. Sometimes the Government just goes too far.

The point stands though that it is not the Lords prerogative to decide if the Government has gone too far, that is the responsibility of the Commons.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Your mind seems to be seriously unobservant.

How? Compared to Greece we've hardly scratched the surface of austerity and the deficit reduction is not happening quickly enough. I'm not saying I agree with the Tories, I'm merely commenting on what is going on.

 

[drew]

How? Compared to Greece we've hardly scratched the surface of austerity and the deficit reduction is not happening quickly enough. I'm not saying I agree with the Tories, I'm merely commenting on what is going on.

You are unobservant then! We are not, never have been, and in all probability, never will be, like Greece. Economy totally different and has always been more resilient. It was just right wing scaremongering.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Throughout the last seven years since the crash tax rates have been pretty stable, tax credits have actually ballooned in that time, the tax free Personal Allowance has gone up by 65%. We've had tinkering, not austerity like the Greeks.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

there was an election less than 6mths ago, cuts to budgets were mentioned.

Interesting point by the Tory blogger on Newsnight. He said the Tories did not expect to get in and the £12b cuts (all unspecified) were never expected to be implemented. They were expected to be part of coalition negotiation.

 

[Stoo82]

I'm no fan of the nasty party but, on this occasion, they will have my 100% support if they use this circumstance to abolish the unelected house replacing it with elected lords nominated by voters. However they won't as they are are the party of the privileged and powerful and will look after the institutions. This situation has made me chuckle.

The problem with a second elected house is what happens if the upper house is run by a different party? Nothing would ever go though! There would be permanent stalemate. Like in the US where it is impossible to pass any kind of legislation. Guns, healthcare...

I believe in democracy. But just saying 'we should have an elected upper chamber' is just too simple. Maybe we shouldn't have an elected second chamber - but the the Commons would be too powerful (checks and balances) and bad policy's like this one would go though regardless of anything. But if we do have an elected chamber, and lets face it Britons hardly vote in election anyway, we could have a situation where an elected government cannot put through it's mandate because the upper house is a different party that is only elected by 12 people!

We can't have a situation where we have 2 governments. That is why no British government ever has or probably will, move towards and elected second chamber, The only reason the Lib Dems were in favor? Because if there was reform, it would be based on FPTP or a similar election, making them more powerful in the upper house than they would ever be in the commons. But I'm no fan of an unelected house of lords either.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

May be if the government put it's foot down with the EU for a change, stopped paying out tax credits to people from the EU who qualify for it, they wouldn't need to cut it in the first place. Tax credits must cost this country billions of pounds of year, and because of the numbers claiming eventually everyone suffers.

I do believe it was the Labour party who introduced tax credits? I do remember people at work, some people where getting £400, £500 a month extra in their pay packets. You can't carry on like this.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

How? Compared to Greece we've hardly scratched the surface of austerity and the deficit reduction is not happening quickly enough. I'm not saying I agree with the Tories, I'm merely commenting on what is going on.

I think you are looking at it from the point of the individual - which I understand. There is another side of the drastic and increasing funding cuts for local government, which mean job losses and reductions in services, stuff about doctors, pay, particularly junior doctors, the morale of the teaching, medical and other caring professions etc etc.

 

[supaseagull]

I'm no Tory but this is an outrageous infringement on the primacy of the Commons. That unelected Peers - Bishops and Earls among them - have done this is entirely unacceptable and undemocratic.

Welcome to Britain! It's been going on for years and te sooner we get an elected second chamber the better.

When Labour won in 97 there was a Tory Majority in the Lords and they would dampen and vote down more than this current second chamber has done so far. The main difference in 97 however was that Labour had such a huge mandate for change compared to what the Tories have now and so I don't understand how people can be more upset now than before.

Whilst I agree with what the Lords have done in this instance, I only hope that this will signal a change and that irony of all ironies is the Tories that look to remove the current second parliament...I doubt that would ever happen though because "Call me Dave" probably wants a nice cushty seat there in a few years time.

 

[drew]

Throughout the last seven years since the crash tax rates have been pretty stable, tax credits have actually ballooned in that time, the tax free Personal Allowance has gone up by 65%. We've had tinkering, not austerity like the Greeks.

Why do you keep comparing us to the Greeks?

 

[brakespear]

The Lords has the conscience the Tories lack - who knew? Dark threats now rumbling out from Gideon

 

[Justice]

Here's a compromise. Pay working tax credit as vouchers rather than cash.

I'm still not convinced these payments go much further than funding a Sky TV subscription in an awful lot of cases.

Do you have any idea why tax credits started in the first place?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Do you have any idea why tax credits started in the first place?

Was it a convenient method for Labour to get nearly 40% of working families addicted/reliant on state aid so their votes could be swayed by tax credit increases pre election ? (costing £30 Bn)

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Tax credits benefit employers also. They are able to offer more roles at minimum wage, because the government will pick up the shortfall.

To be able to get rid of in-work benefits, you must have a minimum wage and taxation policy which provides at least enough income to cover the cost of living.
The government need to spell out precisely what this level is and put policies in place to ensure employers meet their side of the deal, before they take away the safety net.

 

[GT49er]

Was it a convenient method for Labour to get nearly 40% of working families addicted/reliant on state aid so their votes could be swayed by tax credit increases pre election ? (costing £30 Bn)

No.

 

[GT49er]

I work with enough of the majority who refuse to do more than 16 hours because the would lose the tax credits...
They do the minimum number of hours to gain the most credits...

So if you were asked to work longer hours, but the amount of money you were paid would be reduced, you would jump up and down and say 'Thank you very much Sir, that'll make my life so much better. How much would you like me to effectively pay to work more hours?'

Yeh, like *** you would. You'll probably SAY you would, but it would be a blatant lie. Hey ho, that's Toryism for you.