Good piece on Bolton's plight

[BBassic]

http://thesetpieces.com/features/the-column-where-did-it-go-wrong-for-bolton/

I've not really spent much time sympathising with Bolton and their woes this season. In my mind they'd been very much reaping what they'd sown. Overspending and being over reliant on a man who they thought would never stop bankrolling the club. It was a recipe for disaster.

But this write-up made me remember that its they're fans, and non-playing staff, who are suffering. The men, women and children who've spent countless hours and a lot of money to support their club are being let down massively and that truly is a shame.

It leaves me with a strange comfort; our chairman seems to have his hand well and truly on the gear stick, knowing when to shift up and, crucially, when not to. But what if he leaves? What if he and his money go the same way of Eddie Davies? Would we be in any better a position compared to Bolton?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Not commenting on this specific piece, as the link won't open, but as a general point - in what way are their fans 'suffering'?

So (off the back of years of overspending - and thus watching their team in the Prem and in European competition) they are now forced to watch a few seasons of mediocre football as their club treads water. At worst they might even have to experience a relegation or two - the HORROR!

Even if they get wound up, they'll re-form, win league two and have fun along the way - just as Portsmouth are now doing, back on an even keel.

Its very tough for the club (non-playing) staff, and I have utmost sympathy for them, but the fans - meh.

 

[BBassic]

I guess they're suffering in the sense that something they love deeply is in real danger of disappearing completely. We can surely relate to that.

 

[CP 0 3 BHA]

Good piece - and he is certainly right about the unsustainability of the Championship.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I guess they're suffering in the sense that something they love deeply is in real danger of disappearing completely. We can surely relate to that.

It isn't though, is it?

Bolton is a famous old club, with a decent sized fan base to support a team, with a stadium that in whatever ownership, is only going to be used as the home of a football club - in Bolton.

The BWFC company might fold, but a new one will form (see CPFC2010) and they'll wipe the debt and bob along merrily, or they'll fall a couple of divisions, and then sort themselves out (see Portsmouth), or at worst they'll get completely wound up, and start a phoenix club (see Halifax / Aldershot). They'll always have a club to support, in some form.

 

[BBassic]

I don't know, maybe its just me, but a phoenix club wouldn't really feel like my club. At least at first.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I don't know, maybe its just me, but a phoenix club wouldn't really feel like my club. At least at first.

Maybe. We were very close to finding out.

I know that the Portsmouth fans are currently loving life, free of their shady foreign owners, big earners and big egos, and with THEIR club under (part) fan ownership, and finally winning some football matches in a competitive league.

 

[BBassic]

That actually sounds quite inviting! In a bizarre way.

I guess the Bolton issue, for me, just highlights the potential danger of flying too close to the sun. This bit near the end of the article sums it up:

You should all be watching us as we die. Because there’s no chance that we’ll be the last club to go like this. The way in which English football, especially in the Championship, is currently structured is completely unsustainable. Clubs piling millions into the transfer market in the hope that they’ll reach the promised land of the Premier League. Those who make it are absolutely golden right up until the moment that they’re not. And they’re punished; a vicious cycle that will continue to spin until the Championship finally implodes on its self.

 

[nicko31]

http://thesetpieces.com/features/the-column-where-did-it-go-wrong-for-bolton/

I've not really spent much time sympathising with Bolton and their woes this season. In my mind they'd been very much reaping what they'd sown. Overspending and being over reliant on a man who they thought would never stop bankrolling the club. It was a recipe for disaster.

But this write-up made me remember that its they're fans, and non-playing staff, who are suffering. The men, women and children who've spent countless hours and a lot of money to support their club are being let down massively and that truly is a shame.

It leaves me with a strange comfort; our chairman seems to have his hand well and truly on the gear stick, knowing when to shift up and, crucially, when not to. But what if he leaves? What if he and his money go the same way of Eddie Davies? Would we be in any better a position compared to Bolton?

Dan talks more sense than Danny

 

[Bozza]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they're just us but they play in all white and in a part of the country where houses are cheaper.

Neither Bolton nor Albion fans got to choose the custodians of their club, didn't get to choose how the powers-that-be spent money in the name of their clubs but have both enjoyed football above the quality they would have otherwise experienced.

I can imagine that not too long ago Bolton fans used the same phrases about Eddie Davies as we do about Tony Bloom, about how much better it is to have a life-long fan bankrolling the club than an American or someone from the Middle East. Maybe an entire Middle Eastern country.

"It's OK - the only money we owe is to Eddie - he's a life-long fan." etc

We have no reason to believe the same could happen to us, but I think we'd be naive to believe it could never happen. And if it ever did, you can bet there'd be a queue of other fans lined up to point out our years of over-spending relative to clubs who did genuinely try to live within their self-generated means.

 

[Ernest]

Not commenting on this specific piece, as the link won't open, but as a general point - in what way are their fans 'suffering'?

So (off the back of years of overspending - and thus watching their team in the Prem and in European competition) they are now forced to watch a few seasons of mediocre football as their club treads water. At worst they might even have to experience a relegation or two - the HORROR!

Even if they get wound up, they'll re-form, win league two and have fun along the way - just as Portsmouth are now doing, back on an even keel.

Its very tough for the club (non-playing) staff, and I have utmost sympathy for them, but the fans - meh.

You forgot the #twats when mentioning our South Coast chums

I have no sympathy for Bolton, Pompey or even us if it happened, you go back to the level you should be at and start again, we've done it once through Withdean etc

 

[Goldstone1976]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they're just us but they play in all white and in a part of the country where houses are cheaper.

Neither Bolton nor Albion fans got to choose the custodians of their club, didn't get to choose how the powers-that-be spent money in the name of their clubs but have both enjoyed football above the quality they would have otherwise experienced.

I can imagine that not too long ago Bolton fans used the same phrases about Eddie Davies as we do about Tony Bloom, about how much better it is to have a life-long fan bankrolling the club than an American or someone from the Middle East. Maybe an entire Middle Eastern country.

"It's OK - the only money we owe is to Eddie - he's a life-long fan." etc

We have no reason to believe the same could happen to us, but I think we'd be naive to believe it could never happen. And if it ever did, you can bet there'd be a queue of other fans lined up to point out our years of over-spending relative to clubs who did genuinely try to live within their self-generated means.

An interesting view; I'd not really seen the parallels before, but you're right, they're there. I have one question (possibly more for [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] than you?). The great bulk of TB's money has gone into fixed assets (AMEX and training ground). I'm not dismissing in any way the (roughly) £10m pa he's been ploughing in to fund operating losses (principally players' wages and transfer fees), but in totals they amount to ~£45m of the ~£220m (so, 20%) of the total injected. Can the same be said for Bolton?

The relevance is that, in our case, if TB were to fall under a bus or otherwise disappear, firstly, there'd be underlying fixed assets of real value to a new sugar daddy and, secondly, the scale of fix needed to the operating cost structure to get to b/even (if that was what any new owner wanted) would be much less than if the whole debt had been incurred to fund the playing side. All assuming that Bolton's debt is not asset-backed, which I have absolutely no idea about...

 

[Bozza]

An interesting view; I'd not really seen the parallels before, but you're right, they're there. I have one question (possibly more for [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] than you?). The great bulk of TB's money has gone into fixed assets (AMEX and training ground). I'm not dismissing in any way the (roughly) £10m pa he's been ploughing in to fund operating losses (principally players' wages and transfer fees), but in totals they amount to ~£45m of the ~£220m (so, 20%) of the total injected. Can the same be said for Bolton?

The relevance is that, in our case, if TB were to fall under a bus or otherwise disappear, firstly, there'd be underlying fixed assets of real value to a new sugar daddy and, secondly, the scale of fix needed to the operating cost structure to get to b/even (if that was what any new owner wanted) would be much less than if the whole debt had been incurred to fund the playing side. All assuming that Bolton's debt is not asset-backed, which I have absolutely no idea about...

If Tony Bloom did fall under a bus and his family immediately pulled the plug we'd quickly be losing £1m a month with little chance of quickly resolving that.

I'm not sure that the Amex and, even Lancing, are worth too much to anyone else - not too many other local sporting organisations who could make use of the scale of what we have.

 

[perseus]

Rise & Fall

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they're just us but they play in all white and in a part of the country where houses are cheaper.

Neither Bolton nor Albion fans got to choose the custodians of their club, didn't get to choose how the powers-that-be spent money in the name of their clubs but have both enjoyed football above the quality they would have otherwise experienced.

I can imagine that not too long ago Bolton fans used the same phrases about Eddie Davies as we do about Tony Bloom, about how much better it is to have a life-long fan bankrolling the club than an American or someone from the Middle East. Maybe an entire Middle Eastern country.

"It's OK - the only money we owe is to Eddie - he's a life-long fan." etc

We have no reason to believe the same could happen to us, but I think we'd be naive to believe it could never happen. And if it ever did, you can bet there'd be a queue of other fans lined up to point out our years of over-spending relative to clubs who did genuinely try to live within their self-generated means.

Tony Bloom is the only youngster in the squad. Our manager is almost a pensioner and Tony Bloom is not much older than some of the players. But I see your point:

Bolton were in the same position as Stoke are now a few seasons ago.

 

[Goldstone1976]

If Tony Bloom did fall under a bus and his family immediately pulled the plug we'd quickly be losing £1m a month with little chance of quickly resolving that.

I'm not sure that the Amex and, even Lancing, are worth too much to anyone else - not too many other local sporting organisations who could make use of the scale of what we have.

I agree with the first observation entirely, and with the second clause of the second. The first clause of the second - well, the AMEX and Lancing would be worth something to a successor of TB as BHAFC owner, if such a person were to exist. It's this point where I wonder if Bolton are in the same place as us, or do they literally have nothing of value to offer an incoming new owner...?

 

[Ernest]

Tony Bloom is the only youngster in the squad. Our manager is almost a pensioner and Tony Bloom is not much older than some of the players. But I see your point:

Bolton were in the same position as Stoke are now a few seasons ago.

Except the rewards are that much greater now for being in the PL

 

[attila]

This is an object lesson in everything that is wrong with modern football and why a fan-owned club living within its means is the only one whose supporters can truly be absolutely rock solid certain that the future of their club is secure. Everything else is to a greater or lesser degree a Faustian pact, whether it is Man City or Chelsea at one extreme, Whitehawk at the other...or indeed us. I used this phrase once before and someone thought I was having a go at Bloom: I most certainly wasn't. If you're going to run football this way Bloom, as a real fan of our club coming from a background of same, is the absolute best possible option. But the whole premise of the modern game in the UK (and I stress: in the UK - it doesn't have to be like this, it isn't virtually anywhere else) is almost literally a lottery. What happened to Bolton could happen to anyone.

 

[perseus]

An interesting view; I'd not really seen the parallels before, but you're right, they're there. I have one question (possibly more for [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] than you?). The great bulk of TB's money has gone into fixed assets (AMEX and training ground). I'm not dismissing in any way the (roughly) £10m pa he's been ploughing in to fund operating losses (principally players' wages and transfer fees), but in totals they amount to ~£45m of the ~£220m (so, 20%) of the total injected. Can the same be said for Bolton?

All assuming that Bolton's debt is not asset-backed, which I have absolutely no idea about...

Bolton have not sent in their accounts, but I think their holding company has transferred assets out of the business, not football related but leisure related to enable the sale of the club as he is getting older. Nothing unethical about it as the proprietor put the other assets into the club in the first place (although the trade name Bolton may have accentuated their value?)

Very similar to the Albion, and the business plan was OK for Bolton until they bought expensive players and got relegated (and did not go back straight up). Bolton match day income records at something like £5 million p.a. compared to Albion at £9.8 million but otherwise there are certain similiarities between the clubs. Bolton had a match day income of £9.8 million in 2006 (if you believe the accounting records? European football may have helped.)

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Bolton Wanderers

Incidentally, the Blackburn match day income is recorded at £3.1 million and it is their last year of parachute payments. The Rhodes sale was essential and inevitable for them as he was costing Blackburn as much a every year as the fans paid throught the gate. Now, courtesy of Boro, they have got all the dosh back.

Not that I care, Rhodes is just as likely to disrupt the Boro team as improve it. Come the last match of the 46, and I'd sooner play vs Rhodes than Adomah.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You forgot the #twats when mentioning our South Coast chums

I have no sympathy for Bolton, Pompey or even us if it happened, you go back to the level you should be at and start again, we've done it once through Withdean etc

Sounding a little like a Tory there Ernest.

 

[Notters]

I find it very hard to offer them anything but hatred after this crap (which was only 6 years ago ) but I realise that's not the fans' fault.
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...osals-for-two-tier-closed-Premier-League.html