GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[One Love]

I have had plenty of experiences that put me firmly in the "I believe" category.

Like the "I believe" community on here, I don't care what anyone else thinks.

Some non-believers choose to name-call the other side and are strongly against anyone having a different view to them but that is just part of the process.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But i'm sure i won't stop believing in God and thinking Jesus is number 1.

Personally I respect your choice, but I just don't understand how a young person feels the need to believe in religion, I really don't get it. I'm fascinated by science, fiction, film, and the rich creativity that human beings create everyday. I really have no need of a 2000 year old doctrine whose archaic premises, no mater how subtly updated over the years, has little relevance to my moral behaviour, or my ability to be a good person. The joy of a truly open mind is one that can believe in Newton's Laws of Gravity one minute, only to have one's mind changed open reading Einsteins Theory of Relativity. There are no revelations in faith, it is blind and requires total subservience.

It's perhaps my own prejudice, but I almost always associate someone of faith as someone who has something missing from their own existence (I except this is not true), that the requirement to believe in something higher is to have some kind of justification for one's own existence. Perhaps I am slightly the nilihist in this respect, I simply don't need to feel I have any other purpose than to procreate and hand my genes on to the next generation, then return to the dust of the universe.

Of course, the triple jumper Jonathon Edwards would have once made the same statement as above, in fact preached the gospels, but now is very much the born again atheist. You can never be sure about something you can't be sure about.

 

[HovaGirl]

Where did hovagirl and ty go,they were more fun!

Feeding Mr Hova, then watching stuff on TV.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm sorry but I can't let that one go. I grant that the established church in this country holds little sway these days (despite being built into the heart of our unwritten constitution) but you can't seriously suggest that "religion" is a benign force these days. Just look at how it continues to dominate and subjugate people the world over. I've lived in Africa and have seen how people with almost nothing are still compelled to give the little they have to keep preachers in finery.

Personal faith is fine and dandy if it floats your boat but the second it needs "leaders" to interpret and pass on then I get twitchy.

For all your concern about the effect of religion dominating and subjugating peoples the world over, dont you think political ideology is even more pernicious?

Its like the argument that religion is responsible for wars blather, the fact is that political ideology has killed many many more millions than religion has.

So lets worry about religion when we have sorted out the mentalist political idealogues out first, politicians re much more dangerous than religous leaders.

For example it wasn't Europe's religous leaders that f***ed up all the European economies.

Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by, That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

 

[jimhigham]

For all your concern about the effect of religion dominating and subjugating peoples the world over, dont you think political ideology is even more pernicious?

Its like the argument that religion is responsible for wars blather, the fact is that political ideology has killed many many more millions than religion has.

So lets worry about religion when we have sorted out the mentalist political idealogues out first, politicians re much more dangerous than religous leaders.

For example it wasn't Europe's religous leaders that f***ed up all the European economies.

Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by, That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

All fair points. I wouldn't disagree with your view on politics and politicians at all. But while I agree with your theme but it hardly follows that religion should be let off the hook. We should fight injustice, iniquity and bloody minded lunacy wherever we find it.

 

[DTES]

Some non-believers choose to name-call the other side and are strongly against anyone having a different view to them but that is just part of the process.

...and some believers have murdered innocent non-believers solely for that lack of belief.

Obviously not all believers are murderers and I'm not pretending they are. However, I utterly resent the way your post is worded to imply the moral high-ground belongs to the believers. There are plenty of idiots on each side of the debate.

 

[Triggaaar]

But they believe in the same god as do Muslims. I'm not well informed enough at present to answer this.

Jews and Christians have the same god, which is different from the muslim god.

 

[DerbyGull]

Personally I respect your choice, but I just don't understand how a young person feels the need to believe in religion, I really don't get it. I'm fascinated by science, fiction, film, and the rich creativity that human beings create everyday. I really have no need of a 2000 year old doctrine whose archaic premises, no mater how subtly updated over the years, has little relevance to my moral behaviour, or my ability to be a good person. The joy of a truly open mind is one that can believe in Newton's Laws of Gravity one minute, only to have one's mind changed open reading Einsteins Theory of Relativity. There are no revelations in faith, it is blind and requires total subservience.

It's perhaps my own prejudice, but I almost always associate someone of faith as someone who has something missing from their own existence (I except this is not true), that the requirement to believe in something higher is to have some kind of justification for one's own existence. Perhaps I am slightly the nilihist in this respect, I simply don't need to feel I have any other purpose than to procreate and hand my genes on to the next generation, then return to the dust of the universe.

Of course, the triple jumper Jonathon Edwards would have once made the same statement as above, in fact preached the gospels, but now is very much the born again atheist. You can never be sure about something you can't be sure about.

Science is fascinating and can explain things relion can't, faith is amazing and can explain things science can't. That's the way i see it anyway. Look at what life enhancing effects a surgeon can have on a patient. But then people pray for things and miracles happen. The two don't have to clash. Like someone on here said, God is my co-pilot. Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[DerbyGull]

Jews and Christians have the same god, which is different from the muslim god.

They all believe in the same god, though the Jews have Moses and Co, the Muslims Mohammed and the Christians JC

 

[DTES]

Look at what life enhancing effects a surgeon can have on a patient. But then people pray for things and miracles happen.

The difference, with all due respect, is that only the second of those two is a matter of opinion. No miracle has ever been shown to be real, or anything more than word-of-mouth. Sudden remission in disease happens, for example, in patients who are prayed for and those who aren't; there is absolutely no evidence to suggest a prayer has ever caused anything at all.

 

[DerbyGull]

The difference, with all due respect, is that only the second of those two is a matter of opinion. No miracle has ever been shown to be real, or anything more than word-of-mouth. Sudden remission in disease happens, for example, in patients who are prayed for and those who aren't; there is absolutely no evidence to suggest a prayer has ever caused anything at all.

True, that's when faith steps in.

 

[birthofanorange]

Oooh, is this still going?

May I ask who the other 4 are who voted 50:50?

Just curious.

 

[DTES]

True, that's when faith steps in.

To be honest, I just wish I understood how that worked. When there is solid evidence to the contrary of something you believe - evidence that is available for you to see/test - how do you continue to believe? Is it done by deliberately choosing to ignore it? Or... no, sorry, I can't think of any other options.

I'm sorry, I know that may sound rude, but I genuinely just want to understand!

 

[Mr Burns]

What's better? they die and then that's it (your thought process) OR they die and then get another chance in better circumstances or even f*** this world (too much suffering) i'll go straight to big time!

You could say they are the lucky ones, though that sounds cruel as they never had a chance at some of the joys of life, they also never had a chance to do good or bad. When some one dies we're (christians) supposed to believe it's because god 'took them'. And because they never had a chance to commit sin (the thing that keeps us from being in gods presence (being in heaven) when we die) then they will go strainght to heaven possibly to be 'sent back' by god to have another chance.

I only started reading it this summer, only 29, not looking for arguments from anyone on here either. Just speaking from how i see things at present, my opinions may change as i read more. But i'm sure i won't stop believing in God and thinking Jesus is number 1.

Well considering you think 750,000 Africans could be lucky if they die of famine, I honestly hope you don't make 30, you warped vile little shit.

Honestly, for someone who has only just started to read the bible, if you beleive what you say, you are a serious worry. I'd go and seek help mate from a local church or shrink.

So again, if your so certain they will get another chance, after taking months to slowly die in agony in this life, why don't you roll the dice and kill yourself tonight. Because if you've just picked up the bible at 29, something must be missing/wrong in your life? Maybe you'll get dealt a better hand next time around?

 

[birthofanorange]

To be honest, I just wish I understood how that worked. When there is solid evidence to the contrary of something you believe - evidence that is available for you to see/test - how do you continue to believe? Is it done by deliberately choosing to ignore it? Or... no, sorry, I can't think of any other options.

I'm sorry, I know that may sound rude, but I genuinely just want to understand!

That's not rude at all - but there is NO solid evidence to prove it from either point of view, hence the need to accept the possibilty that either side may be right.

And you just have to love those that voted either way as fact!

 

[DTES]

That's not rude at all - but there is NO solid evidence to prove it from either point of view, hence the need to accept the possibilty that either side may be right.

And you just have to love those that voted either way as fact!

In terms of the original question, I completely agree there is no solid evidence in either way. However, for me, any theory as big as "There is a God" needs some pretty solid evidence before I'll even accept it as a valid theory... That'll be my background as a mathematician I expect...

My post you've quoted though was intended more for any particular item of faith. Genesis/creation in 7 days for example - there are those who still believe it - on what basis do they ignore the evidence that we were not put on Earth within 7 days of its 'creation'?

 

[birthofanorange]

I have no idea why anybody would accept the 7 day creation - I certainly don't. Nor do I believe what the bible says - though it does have it's use in putting forward some practical 'rules' in how to run a successful society.

I'm a great 'believer' in science and the measurable, but I also believe that there are many things that have yet to be measured; 'God' may well be one of them.

 

[seagullmouse]

Feeding Mr Hova, then watching stuff on TV.

lucky mr Hova! hello again! looks like the conversation has moved on a fair bit (in terms of length perhaps not detail)

 

[Locky]

As I have said earlier in this thread I believe in God. (FACT)
What God looks like or is I have no idea but when I asked for proof I got it.
This has left me quite confused and after reading some of the posts on here from both sides of the fence find myself nodding.

One thing I am sure of is that he/she is not some person sitting on a throne deciding on the fate of us mere mortals.
I dont think he/she sets us rules either although I guess and hope that he/she hopes we will all be kind and good. Above all else I dont think he/she judges us in any way.
We are all here to live and experience life, to learn from our mistakes and to make the best of things.
Dont ask me how to explain why some children have to die as I really dont know (This adds to my confussion)

I do not agree with any religion as most have flaws. Take jehovah witnesses for example, apparently if you dont become a Jehovah witness you cant get into heaven. Now thats all well and good but if God is as forgiving as we are all told then not letting us in is a little harsh dont you think.

So you can see my problem, Ive had the proof (Private to me before anyone asks) but now have so many questions.

 

[DerbyGull]

Well considering you think 750,000 Africans could be lucky if they die of famine, I honestly hope you don't make 30, you warped vile little shit.

Honestly, for someone who has only just started to read the bible, if you beleive what you say, you are a serious worry. I'd go and seek help mate from a local church or shrink.

So again, if your so certain they will get another chance, after taking months to slowly die in agony in this life, why don't you roll the dice and kill yourself tonight. Because if you've just picked up the bible at 29, something must be missing/wrong in your life? Maybe you'll get dealt a better hand next time around?

Jesus loves you