GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[Mr Burns]

Almost 100% agree with you - depending on how you define "themselves". If you literally mean as individuals, giving their own kids free reign to learn about all religions (and non-religious points of view) and decide for themselves then this is absolutely spot on.

But if a religious individual forces their child to take on a religion before the age that they are able to decide (be that through 'mere' indoctrination or through [insert less controversial word than mutilation here]) then that is still a massive problem. A child's right to choose far outweighs the parent's "right" to choose for them. IMHO, like.

Completely agree with that. Don't know if you saw that Borat video someone posted earlier, or other regilaious video (usually American) and the way the kids prasied Jesus was sickening. A form of child abuse in my opinion.

 

[NMH]

Why not combine the two. Feel will allows you to do that. Two great tastes in one

*gasp* - I did do that, how did you know??

I put some chicken breast I sliced up, and powdered it with garlic, and added a sliced mushroom.
Salivating

 

[DerbyGull]

So we are not in gods image as the bible suggusts then? And how did we "arrive" here?

MB, i am no where close to being a scholar on the bible (I'm currently reading it from cover to cover for the first time), i',m 29 and it's all new to me also. There must be a more sophisticated NCS member that might no the answer to your question.

 

[DTES]

Completely agree with that. Don't know if you saw that Borat video someone posted earlier, or other regilaious video (usually American) and the way the kids prasied Jesus was sickening. A form of child abuse in my opinion.

Must admit I hadn't seen it - I've come to this thread late and I'm wasting enough time posting at all. I'll have a look through though and see if I can find it now

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't think theres a perfect balance perse, more a healthy balance. Nothing is ultimately in the end perfect.

Newton's law is. There a huge difference between saying there's a healthy balance between happiness/sadness etc and Newton's 3rd law regarding equal and opposite reactions (exactly equal, not just a bit similar). It's one thing to think that balances in life remind you of Newton's laws and quite another to suggest that they meet his laws. You'd have him turning in his grave.

My main belief of why God definitely exists or more over why the devil exists is because of all the corruption, greed, worship of money, war and many other bad things and evil that goes on in this world. It is said that the devil is the prince of this world and it's pretty easy to see why when so much suffering goes on unnoticed. We have been given the bible and all the teachings of Jesus on a plate and all we have to do is follow the commandments and the teachings of jesus to enter heaven. And yet how many people can put there hands up and say they follow all these things, not many i'm sure, not even the most devout. But to come close is on the right path. But the devil puts so much temptation in the world it is easier to follow the devil than it is God. So to answer your question I believe there is a god, devil, heaven and hell because this world is a testing ground for 80 yrs (average human years) to see if you are good enough to go to heaven or like the many you will indeed not be worthy to get to heaven. God created us and gave us souls (which are eternal). Because he made us eternal, we have to go somewhere after we die. Also as we are mostly sinners (yes including chrisitans), we are not going directly to heaven, very few will go direct to heaven as god cannot be in the presence of sinners. Many of those not worthy for heaven (those who kept some of the commandments MOST of the time) will go to purgatory. Those who chose to worship other gods, like money, will go to hell.

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent but basically the bible says those who know of gods/jesus's word and reject it are destined for hell, however those who through complete ignorance and lack of education are not condemned as jesus said as he was dying on the cross, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34).

That's all well and good (those are your beliefs, that's fine), but there nothing there to suggest there 'has to be a god'.

So do you expect jews to go to heaven, since they believe in the same god as you, even though they don't agree that Jesus was the messiah?
And re our 80 year testing ground, does that mean you think babies that die (no chance to sin) go straight to heaven because god needed them pronto? There are billions of us being tested down here, wouldn't he be better taking someone who has past that test, rather than a baby that would most likely have failed given the chance?

 

[bhaexpress]

You could say they are the lucky ones, though that sounds cruel as they never had a chance at some of the joys of life, they also never had a chance to do good or bad. When some one dies we're (christians) supposed to believe it's because god 'took them'. And because they never had a chance to commit sin (the thing that keeps us from being in gods presence (being in heaven) when we die) then they will go strainght to heaven possibly to be 'sent back' by god to have another chance.

I think I see the flaw here, absolutely no logic to this at all. It's the whole illogical concept of believing in something or someone of which there is no tangible proof that leaves the rest of us bewildered. The fact that beliefs of all faiths and creeds can trot out glib but non sensical reponses to sensible questions is very much why most people have no time for religion.

As Marx so rightly said, 'Religion is the opium of the masses', so true.

 

[NMH]

You could say they are the lucky ones, though that sounds cruel as they never had a chance at some of the joys of life, they also never had a chance to do good or bad. When some one dies we're (christians) supposed to believe it's because god 'took them'. And because they never had a chance to commit sin (the thing that keeps us from being in gods presence (being in heaven) when we die) then they will go strainght to heaven possibly to be 'sent back' by god to have another chance.

Reincarnation?? Now that's getting too far fetched.

Incidentally, how come all the mystic wankers were always someone well famous and cool in their former lives?
Why not some molester that got hung, or a prozzie??

 

[Mr Burns]

You could say they are the lucky ones, though that sounds cruel as they never had a chance at some of the joys of life, they also never had a chance to do good or bad. When some one dies we're (christians) supposed to believe it's because god 'took them'. And because they never had a chance to commit sin (the thing that keeps us from being in gods presence (being in heaven) when we die) then they will go strainght to heaven possibly to be 'sent back' by god to have another chance.

Then I would suggest you are of sick mind.

BBC News - Somalia famine: UN warns of 750,000 deaths

By your sick thinking, 750,000 innocent Africans (mostly children) are about to hit it lucky then!

You are the sort of person that has made regilon evil. Go away and have a long hard think about what you posted. And then think for yourself, not what some evil shit has told you to think. Its called free will. Someone your GOD doesn't like you to have.

 

[DerbyGull]

This is essentially the problem with all religion, in that any passage can be interpreted in any number of ways, hence all religions have various factions. Christianity has some 33,000 denominations, each with their own take on the Bible.

All i know is Catholics don't take it literally (i can't speak for other Christian denominations). The book the Christians follow is almost all in the New Testament, save from the Commandments in the the Old testament. At the moment I am finding it hard to believe myself that the God of New testament is the same as the (blood and thunder) God of the Old testament.

 

[Albumen]

I believe in facts and theories based on earth mechanics and cosmology that are constantly being questioned and answered. Any other theory, based on a higher being thought is just that, someone's thought. Religion has no place is todays society and should be banished to the dark ages with wizardry.
Irrationality shouldn't have a place in politics or anything that involves making decisions for many people.

 

[DTES]

MB, i am no where close to being a scholar on the bible (I'm currently reading it from cover to cover for the first time), i',m 29 and it's all new to me also. There must be a more sophisticated NCS member that might no the answer to your question.

Out of interest, are you reading the whole Bible cover to cover, or just the New Testament or "Good News" bit?

There is some really screwed up stuff in the Old Testament (probably in the New too, but nothing compared to the Old) - Tim Minchin's favourite example being the instruction to stone your daughter to death if she refuses to marry her rapist, but there's also Moses' instruction for his men to kill everyone they find other than the virgins, who they can keep for themselves.

I'm genuinely interested in how a Christian (in general, not you personally) can square these things with a) the real world & b) the suggestion that this god is 'loving'. Isn't the Bible just a massive Software Licence? People tend to just ignore the actual words and tick "I agree" at the bottom...


EDIT - Apologies, your post appeared while I was writing this, so I hadn't seen it.

 

[DerbyGull]

I thought on the last day he created life...which included adam and eve.

Thus skipping the whole dinosuar bit

Again, Genesis isn't to be taken literally.

 

[DTES]

Again, Genesis isn't to be taken literally.

Without meaning to bombard you... how do you decide which bits to take literally? Is it just the bits that haven't yet been disproven by science are to be taken literally - a list that then over time has decreased (and, I would presume) continue to do so? The "God of the Gaps"?

 

[Bold Seagull]

the atheists can never answer what created the big bang. for them it is always matter, and never consciousness.
some even think consciousness came from sea bacteria as this is the dogma school gave them....hehe.

This is one of the oddest statements made so far, you are referring to atheists like they are a religious group, how can a definition of a person that doesn't believe in one thing, leave them all believing the same thing? I've never heard anyone suggest consciousness comes from sea bacteria? Or are you making you're own leap from the theory of evolution?

On the subject of the Big Bang, the beauty of science is that it is not necessary to contemplate or even understand what was prior to the BB, only that we can measure and experiment and theorise what happened after, and these theories are numerous.

Of course, the Royal Society mainly covered up Newton's devotion to alchemy and the hermetic traditions, but then his genius was, as in many cases tinged with madness!

 

[JJ McClure]

God is my co-pilot.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The craziest thing in this debate is that 46.41% (142 people) know for a FACT either way something that is unknowable!

 

[Triggaaar]

I thought on the last day he created life...which included adam and eve.

Thus skipping the whole dinosuar bit

Ah yes, but that was before we found out that dinosaurs were here first. When we learnt that dinosaurs were here first, what we really learnt was that we were reading the bible wrong, and it suddenly wasn't meant to be taken literally.

 

[El Presidente]

Although I am an atheist, I have just done a jolly big poo, and the first thing I said to myself afterwards was 'GOD, that was good'.

I'm not sure that adds much to the argument though, but it did give me something to think about during the three flush funeral of said dead otter.

 

[Triggaaar]

The craziest thing in this debate is that 46.41% (142 people) know for a FACT either way something that is unknowable!

110% this

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Without meaning to bombard you... how do you decide which bits to take literally? Is it just the bits that haven't yet been disproven by science are to be taken literally - a list that then over time has decreased (and, I would presume) continue to do so? The "God of the Gaps"?

Thats how I see it.

Im not for one minute going to sit here and shout down someone who believes as, frankly, I have no right to. I'm not CERTAIN im right that there's no god, I just can't physically see how there is when things like this pop up.

Im pretty sure when it all started it was ALL meant to be literally taken. Yet the more and more times its disproved it's not 'all' meant to be literal.

Also coming up to something like 9/11 confuses me when it comes to religion. I'm sure there are people on those planes etc that went through extreme discomfort and terror yet were 10000000 times more religious than me. It all seems weird to me. When something like that happens then I can't possibly believe there is a god. Especially when people are dying because of other peoples 'gods' (SOMEONE has to be wrong).

Again, a MASSIVELY simplistic view on my behalf, but that's how I see it.