Get Wilkins back in charge now!

[Deleted member 2719]

Spot on Big Gully - also if Dick didn't want Dean out then why did he say "I felt an the board agreed with me Dean had to go" and " Dean would have been sacked even if we got promoted" - Does that sound anything like someone that wanted Dean at the club - the man is full of shit and i have been saying it for month and getting slagged off - my main concern is now - if we lose on saturday and other results go against us how many will still be saying "give it time - micky can turn it around" - we could be right by the relegation!!!!! If Dick had kept his nose out we wouldn't need to be TURNING anything around

I can understand how some fans have been sucked into believing every last word from DK (he had me fooled for a while), but some people should take there Rose coloured glasses and admit our KNIGHT in shining armour is a PR man and that's what he see first not a great young Manager that is giving everything to the Albion.

Just maybe Knight will learn by this massive blunder.

 

[Knotty]

I can understand how some fans have been sucked into believing every last word from DK (he had me fooled for a while), but some people should take there Rose coloured glasses and admit our KNIGHT in shining armour is a PR man and that's what he see first not a great young Manager that is giving everything to the Albion.

Just maybe Knight will learn by this massive blunder.

We're already relegated then?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The trouble with this thread is the reason for Wilkins dismissal is not in the public domain.

Thread closed?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

We're already relegated then?

Of course we are not.
I would love to see Mickey succeed as i have said before i like the man - But i find it so difficult to forgive a Chairmen that has stab a manager in the back because he can.Dean is the person i most feel sorry for not Knight or Mickey.
Deans is the man that started to turn the club back round and then had to get rid of the dead wood as managers have to, just to be stamped on by Knight - he lost his judgement in thinking that no one would be pissed off for replacing Dean with Mickey.

WRONG.

How would you feel Knotty if you were sacked unnecessarily in your dream job?

Because i feel for Wilkins.

 

[Statto]

It took MA about a season to get a team he could call his in place the last time he was here. Why do people think it will be any different ? It all just takes time.

True, but he didnt know the club at all back then, probably took a year to find his feet. We are in a simmilar posititon in terms of budget and finance ect. Although, in his defecne he doesent really know this division as a mananger.

If we dont make a significant improvement then ill start to admit that we shouldnt have got rid of wendy as he wasnt to ing a bad job (and i was one of wilkins biggest critics).

The fact that we have only won (apart from penalties) 3 games in all competitions this season, and not won since the first week in september, is worrying!

 

[Seasider78]

Bloody hell a stuttering start to the season and all of a sudden Wilkins is the new Capello!!

Yes we need to improve and the football is far from champagne but lets remember if the players had shown a bit of composure in the final minutes of the Northampton and Cheltenham games and we would be 10th!

Bit early to call for the managers head give the guy a chance Wilkins has gone and is not coming back its about time people moved on

 

[Mr Burns]

Although I think we are on the same side here, as far as not agreeing of the sacking of Wilkins, I do not think your post is entirely accurate.

The main reason for the dismissal of Wilkins was DK and Wilkins personal relationship, no doubt.

DK was the main antagonist in the whole issue, Wilkins felt he didnt get the support from DK that he had sort in December and DK didnt feel he should somehow be held accountable to his manager.

There was an uneasy relationship between them but nothing sinister beyond a grave disappointment from Wilkins on how with his support an even better finish might have been accomplished.

Of course it is easy to find many commercial reasons for a change if you look hard enough, but DK was the man that wanted Wilkins out.

Undoubtly Wilkins, like the rest of us was totally miffed by the actions and interference by Uncle Dick during the transfer window. Appartently the first Wilkins knew of Glen Murray joining the club, was when Dick Knight introduced him at training one day!!

But the main reason Wilkins went was commerical, and the people making the most noise about the change was the background backers.

No doubt Dick Knight is an Albion legend. Without him, although I still believe there would be a Brighton and Hove Albion, I doubt we'd be a league club anymore. He as good as saved the club that we know today. But when he come into power, no way did they expect us to be at Withdean today, in fact I think the worse case scenerio was 5 years from the day we left the Goldstone before we moved into Falmer.

During this time, other people have bailed the club out and although Dick stilll sits at the helm, I don't think he has the control or power like he had 5 years ago, and if someone wants the manager changed, and gives Dick two choices, ie Put Adams in charge or we're off, his hands are tied.

I think we are in a similair situation, on a much smaller scale as Newcastle. People with money have backed us, people who are clever business men, and pasionate supporters, but as we've seen at Newcastle, business and passion don't mix. (and I'm not refering to Dick Knight here, as I think if we had Falmer 5 years after the goldstone, we'd be in the premiership now. Dick knows what he's doing, just doesn't have the personal finance to back it up) They see Micky Adams though blue and white specs, and the truth is he's not the manager they think he is, and want him to be. Micky found himself in a unique position when he was first here, had plenty to spend, and everything fell into place for him, and the rest is history. But since then he's struggled, badly, whereever he's gone, and probably has found his level. But the people who keep the club ticking over now, and lets be honest, thats all the club is doing at the moment, see Mickey as the saviour again, but it's just not going to happen. They thought putting him in charge, would bring the fans back, and this is why Wilkins was shafted.

 

[Knotty]

Of course we are not.
I would love to see Mickey succeed as i have said before i like the man - But i find it so difficult to forgive a Chairmen that has stab a manager in the back because he can.Dean is the person i most feel sorry for not Knight or Mickey.
Deans is the man that started to turn the club back round and then had to get rid of the dead wood as managers have to, just to be stamped on by Knight - he lost his judgement in thinking that no one would be pissed off for replacing Dean with Mickey.

WRONG.

How would you feel Knotty if you were sacked unnecessarily in your dream job?

Because i feel for Wilkins.

The crucial part of that is 'sacked unnecessarily'. For all the speculation on here, we still don't know why he was sacked.

I feel for him too because I always liked him as a player, was really pleased when he got the manager's job and was very surprised when he got the sack. However no-one gets sacked for fun. There must have been significant reasons, whether we agree with them or not, for the board to take such action.

Despite, as I say, endless speculation on here, we don't know what those reasons were, so it's impossible to agree or disagree with the decision.

And how did you know that DK thought no-one would be pissed off with the decision? It would not have taken a genius to know that there would be a strong reaction against it, but I wouldn't expect the board to make hiring and firing decisions based on whether the fans approved or not. Judging by the all the comments on here it would be impossible to make those decisions because the fans are so divided on the issue!

 

[Mr Burns]

Spot on Big Gully - also if Dick didn't want Dean out then why did he say "I felt an the board agreed with me Dean had to go" and " Dean would have been sacked even if we got promoted" - Does that sound anything like someone that wanted Dean at the club - the man is full of shit and i have been saying it for month and getting slagged off - my main concern is now - if we lose on saturday and other results go against us how many will still be saying "give it time - micky can turn it around" - we could be right by the relegation!!!!! If Dick had kept his nose out we wouldn't need to be TURNING anything around

Don't believe everything Dick Knight says. He is stil the chairman and has to be seen as the main man at the club. It was deiceied around January/February that Micky Adams was going to come back, and the decision and deal was done, so even if Wilkins got promotion, Adams was coming back.

Dick Knight is not silly, and knows Wilkins is an excellent coach and manager, with huge potenial, and that is why he wanted him to stay as coach, but obviously when the truth come out about when the club first spoke to Micky, and the fact he was made to sack half the squad the day before he was sacked, put Wilkins in a position where he could not come back purely on pride. Look how soon Ian Chapman walked away after what happened. Dean White only stayed because he knew he wouldn't get a job elsewhere!

I've nothing against Micky Adams, I think he's a great bloke and very Albion. But he's simply not a good manager, as his record after he left us the first time around showed. Whilst I don't think, and pray we won't go down, I don't think we should expect much this season.

In fact Adams is now under huge pressure to win Saturday, and mark my words if he doesn't, for the the first time in many years, the crowd may start calling for his head on mass, and as it was a huge risk, seemingly taken by Dick Knight, I wouldn't be surprised if the crowds turn on him, and history shows, when that happens, he has no problem in sacrifising his manager!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Time for a musical interlude?

[yt]UTNpaaPHENE[/yt]

 

[Brovion]

Mr Burns: Thank you for your in-depth posts. As I said earlier I haven't a clue whether you're right or not but all the events and scenarios you describe certainly sound plausible and I agree with your analysis of the situation.

One question: what cretin thought that Mickey Adams was a big enough 'name' to bring back the missing thousands (of which I am one) to Withdean? If they'd got Jose Moriniho then fair enough, but Adams? To paraphrase Bill Clinton's election slogan "It's the results, stupid". Even at the high prices they charge for bog-standard League games I might be planning a visit to Withdean if we were in the top three or four, regardless of whether we were managed by Mickey Adams or Mickey Mouse. I might even be tempted if the football was good, which by all accounts it isn't

The other factor is that last season myself and others were prepared to cut our home-grown manager and home-grown players a bit of slack. They may not have been the best but they were OURS and the feeling was that our cash-strapped club was lucky that it had produced so much talent internally. Now with mercenaries filling the positions on both sides of the touchline results and performance matter more than ever. The bar has been raised as I've mentioned before.

 

[Icy Gull]

One question: what cretin thought that Mickey Adams was a big enough 'name' to bring back the missing thousands (of which I am one) to Withdean? If they'd got Jose Moriniho then fair enough, but Adams? To paraphrase Bill Clinton's election slogan "It's the results, stupid". Even at the high prices they charge for bog-standard League games I might be planning a visit to Withdean if we were in the top three or four, regardless of whether we were managed by Mickey Adams or Mickey Mouse. I might even be tempted if the football was good, which by all accounts it isn't

.

Decent football and a reasonably high place in the league is the only thing that will bring the crowds back. If the board really thought appointing Adams would be enough then they don't know their customers. Adams re-appointment was generally well received, even taking into account reservations as to the reason for the dismissal of Wilkins, but after 10 games many of those who thought he was a football messiah have started to change their minds.

Even if Adams does turn it around results alone will not bring back the crowds imo, we have to start playing good football as well. It was not because the crowd couldn't relate to DW that crowds did not improve last year imo it was the fact that for the most part the football was not entertaining enough. Even when we were doing well towards the end of the season the crowds did not flock back. It was the lack of sustained quality football that kept the crowds down and if the board think it was because of a non charismatic manager and all would be well if they brought back an Albion legend, I believe they are deluding themselves.

Adams doesn't only need to turn it around he needs to get the players playing the ball on the deck if the crowds are to flock back. Is he good enough at this level? I have my doubts as I think the Zamora factor and the return to Withdean played a major part last time around. He does not have those "aces" this time around.

 

[Questions]

Time for a musical interlude?

[yt]UTNpaaPHENE[/yt]

I like this idea. musical breaks every 20-25 posts especially on the Wilkinssacking/Adamsisbest/Knight has a beard/threads.

Maybe a tenuous link in the song as well.

 

[BigGully]

Don't believe everything Dick Knight says. He is stil the chairman and has to be seen as the main man at the club. It was deiceied around January/February that Micky Adams was going to come back, and the decision and deal was done, so even if Wilkins got promotion, Adams was coming back.

Dick Knight is not silly, and knows Wilkins is an excellent coach and manager, with huge potenial, and that is why he wanted him to stay as coach, but obviously when the truth come out about when the club first spoke to Micky, and the fact he was made to sack half the squad the day before he was sacked, put Wilkins in a position where he could not come back purely on pride. Look how soon Ian Chapman walked away after what happened. Dean White only stayed because he knew he wouldn't get a job elsewhere!

I've nothing against Micky Adams, I think he's a great bloke and very Albion. But he's simply not a good manager, as his record after he left us the first time around showed. Whilst I don't think, and pray we won't go down, I don't think we should expect much this season.

In fact Adams is now under huge pressure to win Saturday, and mark my words if he doesn't, for the the first time in many years, the crowd may start calling for his head on mass, and as it was a huge risk, seemingly taken by Dick Knight, I wouldn't be surprised if the crowds turn on him, and history shows, when that happens, he has no problem in sacrifising his manager!

A very thorough and very beleivable post.

But I must say that I think you take on it isn't quite correct.

DK has said that he would of sacked Wilkins even if he delivered promotion, that kinda negates the issue of commercial reasons to dismiss him, promotion would of been a great financial boost for all aspects of the club, that wasn't the reason.

There would of been some reluctance by many on the Board to sack Wilkins and it is likely that the decision to offer Wilkins the coaching role was an olive branch to those who felt uneasy at the surprising decision.

A role by the way that DK would of hoped to be untenable for Wilkins.

Some of the playing staff that conveniently offered their own distorted view of Wilkins tenure I am sure shared restless nights as did DK whilst waiting for Wilkins final decision.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This is nothing that a thumping home win on Saturday won't put right.

We have a good squad of players and should get there in the end. However, something is clearly missing tactically because we keep shipping goals late at the end of each half and some of the quality of football played at home has been abysmal.

My gut feeling is that Adams could do with a more tactically astute No.2. The old Albion under Adams / Booker was fashioned out of Adams rejects from the lower divisions drinking in last chance saloon - Cullip, Oatway, Watson, Brooker, Carpenter. They were more malleable and inherently loyal.

Now, Adams has returned to players he knows but we're 7 years on and most of them have tasted the highlife, so the coaches haven't earned that personal loyalty and "run through walls" attitude the side used to have.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

We have a good squad of players and should get there in the end. However, something is clearly missing tactically because we keep shipping goals late at the end of each half and some of the quality of football played at home has been abysmal.

My gut feeling is that Adams could do with a more tactically astute No.2 ...................

There's no one listed as first team coach on the club website, hasn't there been an unfilled vacancy since May/June?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Mr Burns: Thank you for your in-depth posts. As I said earlier I haven't a clue whether you're right or not but all the events and scenarios you describe certainly sound plausible and I agree with your analysis of the situation.

One question: what cretin thought that Mickey Adams was a big enough 'name' to bring back the missing thousands (of which I am one) to Withdean? If they'd got Jose Moriniho then fair enough, but Adams? To paraphrase Bill Clinton's election slogan "It's the results, stupid". Even at the high prices they charge for bog-standard League games I might be planning a visit to Withdean if we were in the top three or four, regardless of whether we were managed by Mickey Adams or Mickey Mouse. I might even be tempted if the football was good, which by all accounts it isn't

The other factor is that last season myself and others were prepared to cut our home-grown manager and home-grown players a bit of slack. They may not have been the best but they were OURS and the feeling was that our cash-strapped club was lucky that it had produced so much talent internally. Now with mercenaries filling the positions on both sides of the touchline results and performance matter more than ever. The bar has been raised as I've mentioned before.

Brovion is right!

 

[Mr Burns]

A very thorough and very beleivable post.

But I must say that I think you take on it isn't quite correct.

DK has said that he would of sacked Wilkins even if he delivered promotion, that kinda negates the issue of commercial reasons to dismiss him, promotion would of been a great financial boost for all aspects of the club, that wasn't the reason.

There would of been some reluctance by many on the Board to sack Wilkins and it is likely that the decision to offer Wilkins the coaching role was an olive branch to those who felt uneasy at the surprising decision.

A role by the way that DK would of hoped to be untenable for Wilkins.

Some of the playing staff that conveniently offered their own distorted view of Wilkins tenure I am sure shared restless nights as did DK whilst waiting for Wilkins final decision.

Look, I can see what your saying, but the "backers" look on Micky Adams, as Newcastle fans look on Kevin Keegan. They believe that Brighton managed by Micky Adams is a far better club, then Brighton managed by Dean Wilkins. In myu opinion its not. Kevin Keegan, but his own admission isn't the best manager around. He only done what he done at Fulham 'cause of the money he had, and in a similar way, abeit on a much much smaller scale, Micky done the same in his first spell with us.

Don't beleive for one second, that Dick Knight would have offered Dean Wilkins a job, in the hope that he said no. Dick Knight is a very clever businessman, and he would never offer a job to someone as an oliver branch to keep the fans happy.

If that was the case, Steve Gritt would still have a role here. He does things for business reasons and the good of the club, as he sees it, but I think he may now realise the clubs made a big mistake here, and although everyone will be putting the blame firmly at his door, it was a decision he unfortauntely didn't have control over.

This old rubbish about the players not liking Wilkins, is a load of crap. Sure some had plenty to say, but these were only fringe players. Nicky Forster seemed it up, when he spoke of his stock shortly after it happened.

But please don't think that Dick Knight offered Wilkins a coaching role, because he wanted to apease the fans. He offered him a coaching role, because he's proved himself as a good coach, and probably for the reason he didn't want to lose him.

 

[Mr Burns]

Mr Burns: Thank you for your in-depth posts. As I said earlier I haven't a clue whether you're right or not but all the events and scenarios you describe certainly sound plausible and I agree with your analysis of the situation.

One question: what cretin thought that Mickey Adams was a big enough 'name' to bring back the missing thousands (of which I am one) to Withdean? If they'd got Jose Moriniho then fair enough, but Adams?

To some involved with the club, they see Micky Adams through blue and white specs. He to some, is what Keegan is to Newcastle. The firmly believed having him in charge would get the fans pouring back into Withdean.

As I said before, a great business sense outside of football, and passion for your football club dont' often mix!

I think the only way it would have worked is to have brought Micky in as director of football. But he already have one of those, and I'm not sure what he does, as its well known Dick Knight signs most of the players we get, sometimes without the managers consent/knowledge. Turenizo & Murray spring to mind!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Leaving Micky Adams aside, I don't believe Wilkins would have got us promoted this season.

Nothing will ever prove or disprove this, but I think some people are forgetting how we got ourselves into a decent position for a play-off place and then capitulated in a couple of massive matches.