German football: secret to their success?

[BigGully]

So what are the German FA doing, to produce success time and time again?

I had a beer with a mate last night, we spoke about something similar and he recalled an experience that I think offers a clear view of certainly a 'difference' between us and the Germans when it comes to young footballers and their identification.

My mate who has been a professional footballer visited and area of Germany where he had lived and played professionally and whilst there met up with some ex playing colleagues, just old mates really.

It transpired that the two out of the group were still involved with Bundesliga clubs, one coaching and the other scouting, my mate although not an agent is always keen to watch developing footballers and although he doesnt very often he can lend some weight to an introduction of a young player to the relevant department at clubs should he think a young player might deserve being looked at etc. etc.

He had what he thought was a perfect young available English player that would be brilliant for German football and these two were in pole position to facilitate a likely trial, however a few days later and after speaking to the 'Heads of Player Recruitment' at their respective clubs etc. the word came back that thanks but no thanks, not even a trial.

The reason cited by both clubs were that they have at 'Youth' and Young Professional' level a policy that must encourage young German players ahead of any other players.

Its quite an insight to their aims and aspirations and if we accept that this attitude is being replicated throughout German football then you have 100's of young talented footballers taken preference over anyone else, simple but quite brilliant.

Take a minute to think what perhaps Brighton and Hove Albion head of young player might do with a similar approach and there for me you have your answer why England is failing to develop and offer opportunity to young English talent and Germany are succeeding.

 

[NooBHA]

4. Young players who haven't been anywhere near the first teams of Bayern/ Dortmund don't earn 20k a week.

Neither do players in the UK who havn't been near the first team. It would surprise you how low Youth Contracts actually are

 

[Superphil]

Isn't there also some rule in Germany that says over half of your first team must be either German born or nationalised?

I think that's against eu law as it prevents the free movement of labour. The clubs might have a voluntary code though.

 

[Gwylan]

Take a minute to think what perhaps Brighton and Hove Albion head of young player might do with a similar approach and there for me you have your answer why England is failing to develop and offer opportunity to young English talent and Germany are succeeding.

But to take such an approach, you'd need the junior clubs and kids are not given the opportunities in Brighton. I know this because when my son was eight, he wanted to play for a football club and I approached every team in Brighton to see if he could join: every single one said it was full and there were no opportunities to play. I tried again when he was nine and got the same story. He gave up after that, joined a rugby club and is pretty happy playing there. It was sobering to think though that if the next Zlatan Ibrahimovic had moved to Brighton in 2012/13 and looked for a club, he wouldn't have got a game.

Actually, I tell a lie: my son was offered a place at a club if I was prepared to be one of the coaches. The fact that I've barely played football, had no coaching experience or qualification wasn't a handicap, if I was prepared to give it a go, my son was in. Compare that approach to the cricket and rugby teams my kids play for, where every coach has a certificate (or training for one).

And compare that to Germany where there are opportunities for all kids to play football and properly-trained coaches to coach them. It's no wonder we're so far behind.

 

[The Albion Roar]

After Euro 2000 and being thumped 5-1 by England some clever fella probably had the foresight to restructure German football top to bottom.

Whereas the English FA loves abject failure and a play it safe 'yes' man as manager. And will continue to believe the hyperbole around Premier League players meaning if you're expecting change don't hold your breath.

Yes, his name was Howard Wilkinson.

Well, he had the foresight to restructure English football in 1997, but the FA weren't interested, so the Germans swiped many of his ideas.

 

[Hiney]

They have loads of players who know what it means to represent their country.

We have loads of players who don't give a shit about their country, as long as they earn their stupid salaries and drive a flashy car.

Plus, the German FA know how to run their organisation.

 

[The Albion Roar]

They have loads of players who know what it means to represent their country.

We have loads of players who don't give a shit about their country, as long as they earn their stupid salaries and drive a flashy car.

Plus, the German FA know how to run their organisation.

We have three organisation running English football, none of whose agendas correlate.

 

[BigGully]

But to take such an approach, you'd need the junior clubs and kids are not given the opportunities in Brighton. I know this because when my son was eight, he wanted to play for a football club and I approached every team in Brighton to see if he could join: every single one said it was full and there were no opportunities to play. I tried again when he was nine and got the same story. He gave up after that, joined a rugby club and is pretty happy playing there. It was sobering to think though that if the next Zlatan Ibrahimovic had moved to Brighton in 2012/13 and looked for a club, he wouldn't have got a game.

Actually, I tell a lie: my son was offered a place at a club if I was prepared to be one of the coaches. The fact that I've barely played football, had no coaching experience or qualification wasn't a handicap, if I was prepared to give it a go, my son was in. Compare that approach to the cricket and rugby teams my kids play for, where every coach has a certificate (or training for one).

And compare that to Germany where there are opportunities for all kids to play football and properly-trained coaches to coach them. It's no wonder we're so far behind.

There seems enough clubs to meet demand, but ultimately the professional Academy's are seen as the place where the very best from age 6, 7 or 8 years old and future internationals will train and play, thats the plan anyway.

Firstly I can assure you that German's grassroots football as with the Dutch etc. isnt some brilliant example, if you went and watched a local under 12's game in those countries you could perhaps pick out a different style but you still have similar parents, coaching approaches etc.

My point was once identified as a young talented footballer you will if deemed good enough then attend one of their clubs academy's and will know that you will have to compete and develop against primarily other talented German youngsters, the clubs will if possible give those young players a favourable assessment against a similar player from elsewhere.

It means you have 1000's per year given an opportunity that otherwise might not happen, you might become an academy player, then a scholar, then young professional, then first team debutant, then first team regular and then seasoned professional and eventually and hopefully a successful International footballer, even accepting the numbers diminish as you progress the more German players sucked in at key stages (scholarship upwards), supported and favoured will inevitably improve the numbers of Germany players competing in their top division and their manager having a greater pool of players to choose from.

It relieves the gamble of choosing exclusively from a narrow band of players that is likely to be effected by injury, lack of form, inexperience etc, its a numbers game.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

But to take such an approach, you'd need the junior clubs and kids are not given the opportunities in Brighton. I know this because when my son was eight, he wanted to play for a football club and I approached every team in Brighton to see if he could join: every single one said it was full and there were no opportunities to play. I tried again when he was nine and got the same story. He gave up after that, joined a rugby club and is pretty happy playing there. It was sobering to think though that if the next Zlatan Ibrahimovic had moved to Brighton in 2012/13 and looked for a club, he wouldn't have got a game.

Actually, I tell a lie: my son was offered a place at a club if I was prepared to be one of the coaches. The fact that I've barely played football, had no coaching experience or qualification wasn't a handicap, if I was prepared to give it a go, my son was in. Compare that approach to the cricket and rugby teams my kids play for, where every coach has a certificate (or training for one).

And compare that to Germany where there are opportunities for all kids to play football and properly-trained coaches to coach them. It's no wonder we're so far behind.

Remember that the Clubs you refer to will probably all be run by volunteers.. people like you who want somewhere for kids to play football. Within that there will be plenty of Charter Standard Clubs that have Qualified Coaches running the teams - but the majority will still be Dads trying to help out - stepping forward where others haven't. I suggest that getting into Rugby and Cricket Clubs is easier because the sports are not as popular, and the concentration of coaches/volunteers as a result maybe more acute. I also believe that both sports are more technical, and therefore need more than a passing interest. I also expect that you didn't have as many phone calls to make to get around all the cricket/rugby clubs - there will be more opportunities to play football by that fact alone. . The fact remains that all Clubs will be limited only by the number of volunteers they have, and the time that those volunteers have to put in to the Club. I have no idea if there are more Clubs per child in Germany compared to the UK - maybe there are less, and that improves the quality (but reduces the opportunities??) . Many Clubs, just outside of Brighton may have been delighted to offer your son football..struggling for players to keep sides going.. Volunteer to get involved in a Club - an admin role, Welfare Officer, First Aid, Website Administrator, Club Secretary, Treasurer, Fund Raiser, Charter Standard Coordinator - you can do your bit and free up the time of coaches, raise money for new equipment etc etc.. a well run Club will then have the time to focus on the quality of football/facilities/coaching rather than just surviving.. Trust me I know my Club would love volunteers who want a Club to do well but don't want to run a team.. if you don't, who else will?

 

[Albion my Albion]

As well as Germany, they also have their pick of the best players from Turkey and Poland

 

[BigGully]

More likely they are already settled in Germany, probably citizens, it seems unlikely that their own Academy's go to out and actively recruit from other countries ?

 

[Two Professors]

Joint bank account with FIFA?

 

[Gwylan]

Remember that the Clubs you refer to will probably all be run by volunteers.. people like you who want somewhere for kids to play football. Within that there will be plenty of Charter Standard Clubs that have Qualified Coaches running the teams - but the majority will still be Dads trying to help out - stepping forward where others haven't. I suggest that getting into Rugby and Cricket Clubs is easier because the sports are not as popular, and the concentration of coaches/volunteers as a result maybe more acute. I also believe that both sports are more technical, and therefore need more than a passing interest. I also expect that you didn't have as many phone calls to make to get around all the cricket/rugby clubs - there will be more opportunities to play football by that fact alone. . The fact remains that all Clubs will be limited only by the number of volunteers they have, and the time that those volunteers have to put in to the Club. I have no idea if there are more Clubs per child in Germany compared to the UK - maybe there are less, and that improves the quality (but reduces the opportunities??) . Many Clubs, just outside of Brighton may have been delighted to offer your son football..struggling for players to keep sides going.. Volunteer to get involved in a Club - an admin role, Welfare Officer, First Aid, Website Administrator, Club Secretary, Treasurer, Fund Raiser, Charter Standard Coordinator - you can do your bit and free up the time of coaches, raise money for new equipment etc etc.. a well run Club will then have the time to focus on the quality of football/facilities/coaching rather than just surviving.. Trust me I know my Club would love volunteers who want a Club to do well but don't want to run a team.. if you don't, who else will?

All that is true enough. I wasn't denigrating the efforts of the volunteers: the guy who asked me to coach was upfront about it - he said if the club had more volunteers he'd be able to take more players. He didn't mention posts like welfare officer or secretary, just coaching,

Believe me, I know how much work goes into supporting kids' clubs: two weeks ago, I was out three evenings and Sunday coaching, taking kids to cricket and at a committee meeting. It would have been the same last week if the weather had been better.

I've no idea about how popular clubs are in Germany but I do know, from the article posted earlier, that Germany has about 18 times as many UEFA B coaches as the UK has - even though it's only 20% bigger. That implies a more organised coaching structure.

The other advantage that rugby and cricket have is they have a very organised structure, with clear stages of development from schoolkid level through local leagues, national league and national team. One organisation, one clear path. Football hasn't got that here, but it's something that Germany has - and TBH, most countries have it. We're always going to be lagging behind while we have three competing governing bodies

 

[Superphil]

Regarding coaching, and FIFA accreditation, I listened to someone on the radio this week (can't remember who) saying that in Germany when you qualify as a coach you are charged a matter of a couple of hundred euros by the DFB to cover the administration, whereas the FA charge £1500, maybe more, for the same service. This was an insinuation as an example that the FA is a greedy organisation, always prepared to inflate the costs of football, without investing in the sport accordingly.