[Help] General question on deposit for building work

[Uncle C]

A builder insists on a deposit before starting any building work and then fails to even start that work

Is it theft by deception, fraud, or is there another legal term to sum up the situation.

Thanks

 

[Justice]

Unfortunately the law will see it as a civil matter, the same way as if a builder doesn’t get paid from the client. I once rang up the police after not getting paid arguing it was theft of my labour by deception they weren’t interested.
I did argue saying how come you lot turn up if someone refuses to pay a restaurant bill or dodge a cab fare, they didn’t really have an answer but there you go.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Don’t do it. We are having some work done and it has taken months. Loads of dry days but they have clearly been taking on other jobs. They are not getting a penny until the work is complete.

Edit; just seen it’s too late, sorry.

 

[dazzer6666]

A builder insists on a deposit before starting any building work and then fails to even start that work

Is it theft by deception, fraud, or is there another legal term to sum up the situation.

Thanks

Are they established? On Checkatrade or similar? Any social media presence you can use to nudge them ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Don’t do it. We are having some work done and it has taken months. Loads of dry days but they have clearly been taking on other jobs. They are not getting a penny until the work is complete.

Edit; just seen it’s too late, sorry.

If it was a big job, I would disagree with NB (not that he'd expect any different ) and, I'd agree stage payments, groundworks complete, first story build, weatherproofed, internals etc, to cover materials but definitely nothing up front.

Sorry.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I usually ask for deposit for some of the materials upfront, everything's based on trust and the company has only been done over twice in its long history..

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[Rowdey]

Pretty common to have some upfront...it books the time/labour out and if they are any good will want that to secure dates.. say 10/20% deposit and then staged payments with say 10% held back until all happy at the end.

That said, least he could do is turn up or give you some decent excuse..!

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

A builder insists on a deposit before starting any building work and then fails to even start that work

Is it theft by deception, fraud, or is there another legal term to sum up the situation.

Thanks

Are there any written terms or conditions that you signed up to ? If so, PM me and I’ll be happy to look at them. If not, then write to them just stating the facts, I.e you have paid them £x, in anticipation of them starting on y day and give them a reasonable period ( this depends on the length of work imo. I.e if the job was going to take 4-5 months, allow them one further month to start, if it was 1-2 months , then 2 more weeks may be reasonable). it is important that you now record the facts in writing , keep copies and are being seen to be “reasonable”. In my experience, building disputes are not straightforward as it’s not as if you buying an off the shelf product, and if it goes to the small claims court it is essential that you have a good paper trail. It is not necessarily who is right/wrong in these sort of disputes, it is who can provide clear evidence of the issues.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

We've just had two bathrooms completely renovated. Did our research and got a few quotes. Went with the chap we felt most comfortable with ... and great reviews on Check a Trade.

Had a proper detailed quote which specified 40% up front and rest on completion. The 40% was paid in the week before work started and the chap and his two lads working with him did a brilliant job. He didn't talk about the remaining 60% until we were completely happy with everything.

Local chap in Lancing/Sompting if anyone is looking to get there bathroom done. He also does kitchens and other work

 

[doogie004]

Unfortunately the law will see it as a civil matter, the same way as if a builder doesn’t get paid from the client. I once rang up the police after not getting paid arguing it was theft of my labour by deception they weren’t interested.
I did argue saying how come you lot turn up if someone refuses to pay a restaurant bill or dodge a cab fare, they didn’t really have an answer but there you go.

Trust me they never turn up for non payment of taxi fare either


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[Live by the sea]

A builder insists on a deposit before starting any building work and then fails to even start that work

Is it theft by deception, fraud, or is there another legal term to sum up the situation.

Thanks

Agree a schedule of work along with a schedule of payments to match .

 

[Elbow750]

Decent builders will get their materials on account and be invoiced at the end of the month with 21 or 28 days to pay. They will also pay wages at the end of the month.

I've always paid small jobs on completion and bigger works in stages usually about £10 - £20k a time which is about 3 or 4 weeks on a house extension /remodelling.

I've never paid anything up front but always pay Immediately once the appropriate stage is reached.

Maybe I've been lucky but it has always worked for me a d I've never had to hold anything back..³

Oh and make sure you give all trades people multiple cups of tea and decent coffee with posh chocolate biscuits. It works wonders on building good relations and getting a decent job done.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I thought you old people knew everything?

 

[Justice]

Trust me they never turn up for non payment of taxi fare either


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I mentioned that because I saw it on when of them cop shows in London, they went all out to catch the fare dodger.

 

[Justice]

A builder mate of mine has just been done for £22k asked me for a loan of 3k today to pay his boys tomorrow. Reminded me of this thread. Trust works two ways I asked for an upfront deposit just yesterday client paid no problem I was on the job today.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Just had 80k of work done and paid 4k up front.

Lots of smaller builders won't have cash they can buy the initial materials with, so didn't think the don't pay until they've done a load of work approach was tenable.

It worked out fine and maybe I was lucky hearing your story.

Do you have a contract? Whether you do or not you can take him to the small claims court, things might be more straight forward if you do though

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Pretty common to have some upfront...it books the time/labour out and if they are any good will want that to secure dates.. say 10/20% deposit and then staged payments with say 10% held back until all happy at the end.

That said, least he could do is turn up or give you some decent excuse..!

The excuses are at least entertaining. ‘Vans off the road’ is my favourite. Rumbled when he turned up in one to drop off someone to work on something then same excuse used the following week. I also rang the office last Saturday and the lady said they were loading up the vans. Our guy then came on the line to tell me it was too hot to work that day ! Probably loading up the vans with a picnic. We’ve also had the ‘we’ve blocked out the week to finish your job’ classic. That was several weeks ago. Had no trouble at all with other tradesmen in the area, who presumably care about reputation and referrals…

 

[Questions]

I’ve just had a customer say they don’t like the new doors I’ve made for her and she wants them re-made in a different style. For the first time in 40’years I’ve thought about the small claims court.
Get a deposit if you can builders.

Where else can you receive your product and then pay later.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Decent builders will get their materials on account and be invoiced at the end of the month with 21 or 28 days to pay. They will also pay wages at the end of the month.

I've always paid small jobs on completion and bigger works in stages usually about £10 - £20k a time which is about 3 or 4 weeks on a house extension /remodelling.

I've never paid anything up front but always pay Immediately once the appropriate stage is reached.

Maybe I've been lucky but it has always worked for me a d I've never had to hold anything back..³

Oh and make sure you give all trades people multiple cups of tea and decent coffee with posh chocolate biscuits. It works wonders on building good relations and getting a decent job done.

Always - Best bit of investment advice I know

 

[dazzer6666]

We've just had two bathrooms completely renovated. Did our research and got a few quotes. Went with the chap we felt most comfortable with ... and great reviews on Check a Trade.

Had a proper detailed quote which specified 40% up front and rest on completion. The 40% was paid in the week before work started and the chap and his two lads working with him did a brilliant job. He didn't talk about the remaining 60% until we were completely happy with everything.

Local chap in Lancing/Sompting if anyone is looking to get there bathroom done. He also does kitchens and other work

Just doing the same now. Using a guy (was Hurst based but has moved to Ferring) that friends recommended (also does kitchens, works on his own and is qualified for plumbing and electrical so can do the whole job). Nothing requested upfront but I bought most of the materials (in consultation with him). Obviously he has needed to get some stuff, so I offered to lob him some cash at the end of the first week. Not the fastest but really good workmanship (second bathroom has been stripped completely down to being replastered, some pipework replaced etc).