General Election 2017

[Buzzer]

I agree. Who knows how history will judge him?

History is judging him. The second Iraq war was unnecessary and unjustified, driven largely by George Bush jnr's desire to finish off Saddam who was boasting that he'd outlasted his father. Having gone into Iraq, we destabilised the Middle East completely and created the monsters that were Al-Qaeda and ISIS.

Of course all this is said in hindsight but those, pretty much, are the facts.

 

[The Rivet]

Back on subject:

I'd hate myself if I voted for May, but Labour = shambles and Liberals = weak on defence. First time in a long time I have no idea how to vote.

I do not think there has ever been a voter that agreed with every point in a parties manifesto. You have to ask what is THE important consideration in the first instance. Vote accordingly and try to influence future party beliefs.

 

[lawros left foot]

Ahhh yes Biscuit the politicians natural habitat. Only History will prove them, never the present. Talking about History, how did Blair get on? Most commentators put him in the 'wrongun' bracket.

I think his foreign policy in regards to the Middle East, and his slavish behaviour, with regard to Bush and America, is denounced by most commentators, but, his home policies, were far better than anything we have had since. The NHS waiting lists were at their lowest over recent times, lending rates were at a record low, inflation was at an equal low, as was unemployment. We didnt enter the Euro, with hindsight, an excellent decision, and, we had the Good Friday Agreement. Nit too shabby, from a lite weight, oh, and he won three consecutive General Elections

 

[Biscuit]

History has already judged him!

You have judged him, there's a difference. To [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION]'s point, yes I agree. But you still need distance and objectivity to get the whole picture - and that takes time - it's an ongoing process. Historians still change their opinion on historical figures and opinions come in and out of fashion. That doesn't change the fact that in his lifetime he'll largely be remembered with distain.

 

[beorhthelm]

i know this is the GE and not the Brexit thread, but so much talk is about Brexit... has anyone paid much attention to the breakdown of this exit bill?

there's apparently 36Billion for infrastructure projects that have been built but havent been paid for yet (?!?), and 27Billion for commitments to projects for subsidies for poorer regions etc. this on top of a 9.6bn pension liability and 27bn for the two years contributions in 2019 and 2020 of the current budget.

let it sink in a moment... we pay in to EU ~13bn a year, yet some how we owe 63bn for projects apparently not paid for. we'd presumably have to pay if we stayed in... so that 13bn contribution looks a little light doesnt it? seems like membership bill would be about to go up in 2020.

 

[Biscuit]

I do not think there has ever been a voter that agreed with every point in a parties manifesto. You have to ask what is THE important consideration in the first instance. Vote accordingly and try to influence future party beliefs.

That's very good advice. Trident is THE issue for me. Closely followed by the NHS. I feel let down by all three major parties on both of these issues bar the Conservatives who are strong on defence.

 

[The Rivet]

I think his foreign policy in regards to the Middle East, and his slavish behaviour, with regard to Bush and America, is denounced by most commentators, but, his home policies, were far better than anything we have had since. The NHS waiting lists were at their lowest over recent times, lending rates were at a record low, inflation was at an equal low, as was unemployment. We didnt enter the Euro, with hindsight, an excellent decision, and, we had the Good Friday Agreement. Nit too shabby, from a lite weight, oh, and he won three consecutive General Elections

and together with Brown left a note. There is no money left!

 

[lawros left foot]

Back on subject:

I'd hate myself if I voted for May, but Labour = shambles and Liberals = weak on defence. First time in a long time I have no idea how to vote.

Im gonna vote Labour,but, where I live my vote doesnt count anyway.
Oh, for A REALLY Democratic country, where every vote counts.

 

[Biscuit]

I think his foreign policy in regards to the Middle East, and his slavish behaviour, with regard to Bush and America, is denounced by most commentators, but, his home policies, were far better than anything we have had since. The NHS waiting lists were at their lowest over recent times, lending rates were at a record low, inflation was at an equal low, as was unemployment. We didnt enter the Euro, with hindsight, an excellent decision, and, we had the Good Friday Agreement. Nit too shabby, from a lite weight, oh, and he won three consecutive General Elections

Well said, pretty much how I see it too.

 

[lawros left foot]

and together with Brown left a note. There is no money left!

I think you'll find he was already long gone by then.

 

[Biscuit]

and together with Brown left a note. There is no money left!

...because of the global economic slowdown caused by the sub-prime mortgage crisis in the US. Or was that Labours fault too?

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

There is no evidence that anything was leaked and was probably a naughty peice in a German newspaper.
Yesterday it was 'Brussels gossip' today it's the EU trying to bring down the UK and meddling in the general election.
Channel 4 news, 'we had a Conservative minister lined up to answer questions, but he was taken away'
Theresa May is looking more and more desperate and mad as each day goes by, but I don't understand why because she is going to win by a street but if she carries on like this she is going to scare a lot of floating voters to go another way.
I know the problems with Corbyn, but the public seem to not see through this woman, there is something very wrong about her.[/QUOTE]

Carries on like . . .what? That thick public again -they just need you to enlighten them.

Ooh, touched a nerve.
Your protection of the Tories is laughable, surely even you can see that May is drowning and the negotiations haven't even started, the Europeans will have her for dinner.

 

[jakarta]

We didnt enter the Euro, with hindsight, an excellent decision,

From memory that was down to Gordon Brown, almost certainly the best thing he did for the UK.

 

[Buzzer]

You have judged him, there's a difference. To [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION]'s point, yes I agree. But you still need distance and objectivity and that takes time. Historians still change their opinion on historical figures and opinions come in and out of fashion. That doesn't change the fact that in his lifetime he'll largely be remembered with distain.

Sorry but disdain is Blair getting off lightly. Even if he is not guilty of nothing worse than bad judgement then that is IMO on a par with Chamberlain's "peace in our time". I really don't think enough thought is given to the fact that he was the first British PM in over a hundred years to use British troops to overthrow a sovereign foreign state that was no threat to the UK.

 

[lawros left foot]

From memory that was down to Gordon Brown, almost certainly the best thing he did for the UK.

Blair was PM though, we are discussing his Government, I thought

 

[Biscuit]

Sorry but disdain is Blair getting off lightly. Even if he is not guilty of nothing worse than bad judgement then that is IMO on a par with Chamberlain's "peace in our time". I really don't think enough thought is given to the fact that he was the first British PM in over a hundred years to use British troops to overthrow a sovereign foreign state that was no threat to the UK.

Replace distain for a stronger word then. The point remains the same.

 

[Buzzer]

Im gonna vote Labour,but, where I live my vote doesnt count anyway.
Oh, for A REALLY Democratic country, where every vote counts.

I honestly think that this is the most depressing thing about this election. So few people are voting for a party with any enthusiasm because Labour, Lib Dems and Tories are all offering so little. I'l say it again, I thank God that UKIP imploded otherwise they'd be looking at a very successful GE.

 

[Hastings gull]

Ooh, touched a nerve.
Your protection of the Tories is laughable, surely even you can see that May is drowning and the negotiations haven't even started, the Europeans will have her for dinner.

I have no idea how the negotiations will go, and nor have you. What we have seen is the predictable posturing from all sides so your assertion that they will have her for dinner is what is laughable. We simply do not know.

 

[lawros left foot]

Sorry but disdain is Blair getting off lightly. Even if he is not guilty of nothing worse than bad judgement then that is IMO on a par with Chamberlain's "peace in our time". I really don't think enough thought is given to the fact that he was the first British PM in over a hundred years to use British troops to overthrow a sovereign foreign state that was no threat to the UK.

Swiftly followed by Cameron, in Libya, now another basketcase, ungovernable, and ripe for a Daesh incursion.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but, Cameron should have taken note of Iraq and kept well out of it.

Hindsight,eh?

 

[larus]

Blair was PM though, we are discussing his Government, I thought

True, but Blair wanted to join the EURO and had o back down. This is generally accepted as fact.