[Football] Finals at major tournaments since I started following the game:

[Simster]

Euro 1984 France v Spain
WC 1986 Argentina v West Germany
Euro 1988 Netherlands v Russia
WC 1990 West Germany v Argentina
Euro 1992 Denmark v Germany
WC 1994 Brazil v Italy
Euro 1996 Germany v Czech Rep
WC 1998 France v Brazil
Euro 2000 France v Italy
WC 2002 Brazil v Germany
Euro 2004 Greece v Portugal
WC 2006 Italy v France
Euro 2008 Spain v Germany
WC 2010 Spain v Netherlands
Euro 2012 Spain v Italy

European Nation Final Appearances since 1984
Germany/West Germany 6
Italy 4
France 4
Spain 4
Netherlands 2
Denmark 1
Greece 1
Portugal 1
Russia 1
Czech Rep 1

Proof - if it was needed - that England are no more relevant to football than Sweden, Croatia, Belgium, Poland and Turkey. All of whom, like England, have reached a single World Cup semi-final in that time. We've also reached a Euro semi, but so have Denmark, Sweden, Portugal (three times) and the Czech republic (twice).

Considering the amount of money in our game, and relative wealth of the country, that really is a national disgrace.

 

[Icy Gull]

If you haven't reached this point already it won't be long before you don't even get angry during games...

I have seen England win a World Cup though so maybe I'm not as desperate as most of you. I was a kid living in Germany at the time too,

 

[Simster]

I'm 42 and we've never reached a final. I have seen Denmark and the Czech Republic do it though. And I've seen Bulgaria and Belgium make a World Cup semi too.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Gritt23]

Considering the amount of money in our game, and relative wealth of the country, that really is a national disgrace.

Does the wealth of our club game help though? If anything I'd say it hinders us, as players reach fabulous wealth with minimal achievement. How many players have got themselves a Premiership contract, worth a fortune, and at that point failed to train on any further.

2 years ago I would never have believed a fit Jack Wilshire would be an unused sub in a key England game, not unless we had uncovered some midfield World beaters. But is there an attitude of fabulous wealth, and 4th place is job done?

Not picking on Jack, as there are plenty of other examples, who haven't even delivered close what he has on similar potential. Just saying, I don't see the "wealth" in our game helps. maybe it hinders.

 

[Hillian1]

I honestly believe that the National Press are partly to blame with the expectation they heap on the team and almost always find a way to de-stabalise them just before a tournament.

 

[Wozza]

I honestly believe that the National Press are partly to blame with the expectation they heap on the team and almost always find a way to de-stabalise them just before a tournament.

What? There was ****-all expectation this time.

 

[Hillian1]

What? There was ****-all expectation this time.

Exactly.

It's when there is a glimmer of hope that they go into hype mode and put the pressure on.

 

[Wozza]

More so that Germany, Brazil, Italy etc? Nah.

 

[Northstander]

Check out the nationals back pages and reading some of the threads on this site sort of gives and idea at the amount of pressure on the world beaters that are England!

Talksport are demanding sackings..SERIOUSLY

This was one of the better England teams I have seen with great promise ahead!

Immediate results will not happen...we just need to back off and let the development of our national game evolve and develop

 

[Simster]

Does the wealth of our club game help though? If anything I'd say it hinders us, as players reach fabulous wealth with minimal achievement. How many players have got themselves a Premiership contract, worth a fortune, and at that point failed to train on any further.

2 years ago I would never have believed a fit Jack Wilshire would be an unused sub in a key England game, not unless we had uncovered some midfield World beaters. But is there an attitude of fabulous wealth, and 4th place is job done?

Not picking on Jack, as there are plenty of other examples, who haven't even delivered close what he has on similar potential. Just saying, I don't see the "wealth" in our game helps. maybe it hinders.

The wealthy European leagues are English, Spanish, Italian and German, followed by the French league. Four of them are football power houses, and one is mediocre that hasn't gone beyond the last 8 of ANY major competition hosted abroad EVER.

A nation with as much money in the game as ours should be able to direct funding to where it's needed.

 

[Hillian1]

The wealthy European leagues are English, Spanish, Italian and German, followed by the French league. Four of them are football power houses, and one is mediocre that hasn't gone beyond the last 8 of ANY major competition hosted abroad EVER.

A nation with as much money in the game as ours should be able to direct funding to where it's needed.

Sadly, it's directed straight into the players pockets, and that aint going to change any time soon either.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What? There was ****-all expectation this time.

And it completely ignores the expectation placed on other nations. England are not unique.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This was one of the better England teams I have seen with great promise ahead!

Immediate results will not happen...we just need to back off and let the development of our national game evolve and develop

We have been here before; some of us are old enough to recognise this as the start of the usual cycle which ends in vastly misjudged expectation and disappointment. Remember the golden generation for example?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

More so that Germany, Brazil, Italy etc? Nah.

The expectation on this particular crop of German players to win this world cup is as great as anything I have witnessed in England.

 

[Hillian1]

And it completely ignores the expectation placed on other nations. England are not unique.

That is a fair point, I have no idea how other nations media report expectations.

Is it as bad in Germany?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Is it as bad in Germany?

I would not say it bad, but from what I can tell it is at the same level as England. And rightly so given the investment and focus which has been put into this generation since just before the 2006 world cup; for the first fruits of the reform it is now or never. In fact some of the players have actually said this themselves. Dealing with pressure and expectation is part of being an elite athlete.

 

[Gritt23]

The wealthy European leagues are English, Spanish, Italian and German, followed by the French league. Four of them are football power houses, and one is mediocre that hasn't gone beyond the last 8 of ANY major competition hosted abroad EVER.

A nation with as much money in the game as ours should be able to direct funding to where it's needed.

Until the Xavi and Iniesta generation, Spain were perennial under-achievers at major tournaments. Despite Barcelona and Real Madrid being two of the biggest clubs in the World for decades, it is only this one generation that has ever produced.

Of course, what they do is magnificent, and their leagues are wealthy too, but Argentina, and Brazil haven't always had wealthy leagues, and they do very well. Personally, I don't think money is what makes it work, and actually, I think the wealth of players harms their development as it reduces their hunger to improve. It's not just English players that this happens to ... where are Robinho and Kaka? Both fabulously talented players, who have just dropped away as their personal wealth went through the roof.

 

[essbee]

Simster

I totally agree with your OP - it is a bloo*y disgrace that we struggle
to put players on the pitch who can defend reasonably.

 

[Weezle]

The wealthy European leagues are English, Spanish, Italian and German, followed by the French league. Four of them are football power houses, and one is mediocre that hasn't gone beyond the last 8 of ANY major competition hosted abroad EVER.

A nation with as much money in the game as ours should be able to direct funding to where it's needed.

Except we have. We reached the last 4 in Italia 90.

 

[Simster]

Until the Xavi and Iniesta generation, Spain were perennial under-achievers at major tournaments. Despite Barcelona and Real Madrid being two of the biggest clubs in the World for decades, it is only this one generation that has ever produced.

Of course, what they do is magnificent, and their leagues are wealthy too, but Argentina, and Brazil haven't always had wealthy leagues, and they do very well. Personally, I don't think money is what makes it work, and actually, I think the wealth of players harms their development as it reduces their hunger to improve. It's not just English players that this happens to ... where are Robinho and Kaka? Both fabulously talented players, who have just dropped away as their personal wealth went through the roof.

We're talking at cross purposes I think. The Dutch and Germans have money in their games, relatively speaking, yet clearly do a better job of directing it to where it adds value for the nation and not straight into player's pockets. As [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] said on another thread, go to Holland and see the facilities they have there.

And I'll add that Ajax had player academies for kids up and running well before anyone here knew what they were. Talented players in Holland essentially attend schools run by the clubs, and they do their exams at those schools. They don't give it all up. The result is that talented players whose parents can see that football *might* not work out for them, end up seeing their kids not throw away an education on a whim and so are encouraged to pursue a football dream.

Germany and Spain both have 10 times the number of qualified coaches per capita than we do. Their FAs have clearly seen this as an important step to bringing future generations through, whereas our FA stands by as we fall further and further behind whilst opening the doors to all manner of foreign crooks to buy our clubs and either use them as toys or as a way to make a fast buck. The Premier League is the football equivalent of the wild west.