[News] Feral Children - what to do?

[bWize]

I think that would be MOST welcome actually!

You would be one of the prime candidates to go first judging by the tone of your posts

 

[Bozza]

One of the first things I was taught about teaching was that giving kids something engaging to do stops behaviour problems. The more engaged they are the less trouble they cause. It is still true today and is true across a wide range of settings and situations.

It's not a new idea either both Morrissey and the Bible talk about the devil finding work for idle hands.

Clubs, groups and sports keep kids busy and engaged. I have no doubt that they are beneficial for large swathes of youthful society. Especially as they usually contain the guidance, observation and advice of caring adults.

I read a stat about youth incarceration over here in Australia. Kids involved in sports clubs are far far far less likely to be in trouble with the police than those who are not.

Whilst not disputing what you say, I wonder where the motivation comes for those most in need of "something else to do" to actually go and do something that isn't being out on the streets being a menace?

My son goes to all manner of after-school clubs including debate, science, basketball and chess. He goes to scouts and we encourage he attends all activities offered to him there.

But I know that if he didn't do these things, he wouldn't be out on the streets inflicting pain and humiliation on others, videoing the whole thing for shits and giggles.

And, from what we can gather, there is a distinct lack of "troubled kids" at all of these. Those most likely to be involved in trouble don't seem to have the self-interest to take part in extra activites and neither do they have the parental encouragement to do so.

I'm certainly not saying "there's no point - the bad kids don't come", but I am wondering how they do become engaged sufficiently to prefer it to beating people up for social media fun.

 

[portlock seagull]

You would be one of the prime candidates to go first judging by the tone of your posts

Charming!

 

[portlock seagull]

Whilst not disputing what you say, I wonder where the motivation comes for those most in need of "something else to do" to actually go and do something that isn't being out on the streets being a menace?

My son goes to all manner of after-school clubs including debate, science, basketball and chess. He goes to scouts and we encourage he attends all activities offered to him there.

But I know that if he didn't do these things, he wouldn't be out on the streets inflicting pain and humiliation on others, videoing the whole thing for shits and giggles.

And, from what we can gather, there is a distinct lack of "troubled kids" at all of these. Those most likely to be involved in trouble don't seem to have the self-interest to take part in extra activites and neither do they have the parental encouragement to do so.

I'm certainly not saying "there's no point - the bad kids don't come", but I am wondering how they do become engaged sufficiently to prefer it to beating people up for social media fun.

This. Part of my difficulty with bored kids = problems is we all experienced boredom but didn’t all create a host of anti social problems consequently. Too often we almost condone such behaviour unless alternative entertainment etc can be provided.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Once again you’ve added your own interpretive hyperbole to the thread title. Feral literally means “in a wild state”.

.

That's exactly what these kids are - in a wild state - so they are feral.

I'd go after the parents.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

One of the first things I was taught about teaching was that giving kids something engaging to do stops behaviour problems. The more engaged they are the less trouble they cause. It is still true today and is true across a wide range of settings and situations.

It's not a new idea either both Morrissey and the Bible talk about the devil finding work for idle hands.

Clubs, groups and sports keep kids busy and engaged. I have no doubt that they are beneficial for large swathes of youthful society. Especially as they usually contain the guidance, observation and advice of caring adults.

I read a stat about youth incarceration over here in Australia. Kids involved in sports clubs are far far far less likely to be in trouble with the police than those who are not.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, the 'troubled' kids tend not to be those who go to Youth Centres (I know this as my wife was a Youth Worker for 15 years until earlier this year)

Outreach work tends to be much more successful for kids who simply aren't interested in going into Youth Centres, playing table tennis etc.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Whilst not disputing what you say, I wonder where the motivation comes for those most in need of "something else to do" to actually go and do something that isn't being out on the streets being a menace?

My son goes to all manner of after-school clubs including debate, science, basketball and chess. He goes to scouts and we encourage he attends all activities offered to him there.

But I know that if he didn't do these things, he wouldn't be out on the streets inflicting pain and humiliation on others, videoing the whole thing for shits and giggles.

And, from what we can gather, there is a distinct lack of "troubled kids" at all of these. Those most likely to be involved in trouble don't seem to have the self-interest to take part in extra activites and neither do they have the parental encouragement to do so.

I'm certainly not saying "there's no point - the bad kids don't come", but I am wondering how they do become engaged sufficiently to prefer it to beating people up for social media fun.

Good points.

And by the same token providing all manner of out of school activities isn't likely to transform the behaviour of a kid who goes home afterwards to be battered or raped by 'parents'.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That's exactly what these kids are - in a wild state - so they are feral.

I'd go after the parents.

If they have parents and are living in a house or flat then they're clearly not. The term also implies these kids are beyond help and I don't believe any human being is beyond help.

The parents are absolute scum, I agree.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Whilst not disputing what you say, I wonder where the motivation comes for those most in need of "something else to do" to actually go and do something that isn't being out on the streets being a menace?

My son goes to all manner of after-school clubs including debate, science, basketball and chess. He goes to scouts and we encourage he attends all activities offered to him there.

But I know that if he didn't do these things, he wouldn't be out on the streets inflicting pain and humiliation on others, videoing the whole thing for shits and giggles.

And, from what we can gather, there is a distinct lack of "troubled kids" at all of these. Those most likely to be involved in trouble don't seem to have the self-interest to take part in extra activites and neither do they have the parental encouragement to do so.

I'm certainly not saying "there's no point - the bad kids don't come", but I am wondering how they do become engaged sufficiently to prefer it to beating people up for social media fun.

Yep, basically correlation not causation. The issues facing kids from less middle class backgrounds can be immense. Lots of anti parents comments on here again so I can only re-iterate that when I have dealt with difficult issues with kids I have nearly always found the parents very helpful.

 

[BLOCK F]

You complained of Partisan political comments, there is only one party that these kids have grown up under since they were toddlers, my point is it isn't because anyone is a left wing partisan that Tories get the blame for the failings. The parents of the victims are complaining about inaction on the part of the Police.

There is, of course, a discussion to be had re policing in general and their priorities these days, in particular.
However, the discussion on this thread has widened from talking about lack of police action in this instance to a more general one including the the reasons for such behaviour and what should be done about it.
In my quote that you comment on, I highlighted the creeping lack of respect for anyone in authority including from ‘feral’ parents towards teachers,for example. I said that parents must bear some responsibility for the action of their children and indeed, I believe, in a previous post of yours, I think you said, words to the effect that, you bet the kids who perpetrated this crime, no doubt take a few beatings at home.
We are not necessarily disagreeing.

 

[Baldseagull]

There is, of course, a discussion to be had re policing in general and their priorities these days, in particular.
However, the discussion on this thread has widened from talking about lack of police action in this instance to a more general one including the the reasons for such behaviour and what should be done about it.
In my quote that you comment on, I highlighted the creeping lack of respect for anyone in authority including from ‘feral’ parents towards teachers,for example. I said that parents must bear some responsibility for the action of their children and indeed, I believe, in a previous post of yours, I think you said, words to the effect that, you bet the kids who perpetrated this crime, no doubt take a few beatings at home.
We are not necessarily disagreeing.

The first post of yours I responded to was #63 it said just this "Another thread that seems to have gone down the partisan political route………again."
The Political comments I had seen were mostly regarding the lack of Police efforts to curb the issues.

I just disagreed that it is Partisan to blame the Government not just of the day, but of the last 12 years. It is a fact that Police funding from central Government fell from 2010 to 2019 by 30% whilst the population grew by 4 million. It is also true that in the previous ten years Central Government funding of Police grew by 30%.
https://fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/
Local Authorities have made up some of the difference, but it is easier for Surrey to do than Lancashire.

 

[BLOCK F]

The first post of yours I responded to was #63 it said just this "Another thread that seems to have gone down the partisan political route………again."
The Political comments I had seen were mostly regarding the lack of Police efforts to curb the issues.

I just disagreed that it is Partisan to blame the Government not just of the day, but of the last 12 years. It is a fact that Police funding from central Government fell from 2010 to 2019 by 30% whilst the population grew by 4 million. It is also true that in the previous ten years Central Government funding of Police grew by 30%.
https://fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/
Local Authorities have made up some of the difference, but it is easier for Surrey to do than Lancashire.

I’m not arguing about the funding of the police, as such, and if the statistics you quote are accurate, that is quite fair enough.
What I do believe is that the seemingly lack of proper response from the police surely cannot be justified purely by funding cuts.There would appear to be something fundamentally wrong with the priorities of certain police forces, regardless of funding.
Yes, it is quite in order to question funding, but to me, the bigger question is regarding police priorities.
As the discussion widened, I went on to comment on parenting etc.
Anyway, reading our posts, Idon’t think we are in huge disagreement.
Have a good weekend and here’s to an Albion win.

 

[maltaseagull]

There was a total change 20 or so years ago.

At school in the 70’s and 80’s parents didn’t go after teachers who dared criticise their kids.

I’ve teachers and a just retired head in my family. By 2000 some schools such as East Brighton and Hailsham had security at leaving time, as some parents wanted to beat up teachers who’d disciplined Chardonnay or Harry.

That poor bloke in Worthing was left with brain damage by cowardly kids with weapons, by no means an isolated incident.

These brats have been allowed to get away with blue murder from day one. Littering, vandalising, abusing the vulnerable and elderly, reading their legal rights to the police, taking what they want from others.

This was going on 20 years ago before the financial crisis.

Well done to the OP for not following the crowd and mentioning this.

I was managing a Supermarket in a small town in East Sussex in the late 90s and every night we had several yobs hanging around outside and often trying to come in and "nick " stuff and generally be obnoxious.
Police were not interested and if we got involved, I dread to think of the consequences. I was once accused of sexual assault by a parent shoplifting with her young daughter. She was getting the daughter to put items up her sweater. Fortunately we had cctv and several witnesses.

It certainly changed before then, probably 70s. Radical reforms etc.

 

[Weststander]

Some facts:







I’d love to see far more frontline and visible police officers. But it can never be a panacea, they can’t be everywhere every time a burglary, assault, rape or robbery’s about to occur.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Good points.

And by the same token providing all manner of out of school activities isn't likely to transform the behaviour of a kid who goes home afterwards to be battered or raped by 'parents'.

I agree. Children who go to structured activities are likely to have limits on behaviour at home.

That’s why youth clubs were so valuable. They were more like drop in centres with no compulsion for attendance.
Yes there were activities like football, volleyball, table tennis and pool but just as important, kids could drop in just to talk to their mates, and once they got to know us, and trust us, to us. A listening ear helps a huge amount.

 

[faoileán]

Those kids ARE behaving like feral scum though. Unprovoked, unwarranted, pointless blind violence. I would be utterly mortified and ashamed beyond belief if one of my children had ever behaved like this. I don't think I'd ever get over it.

Once identified, it should lead to the prosecution of the parents. They should be formally cautioned, with severe consequences if their our-of-control horrific crotch-goblins ever repeat their vile acts again.

I recall many many similar scenes in the 1970/80s when I was young, the only difference being that there were no mobile phones to record it, and maybe that girls weren't involved. When I think about my teenage years I don't think of myself as a victim but as I recall:

+ at school? - yes lots of fights and bullying going on
+ at discos? - yep, regular fights. I was involved in a few
+ at the football? - it seemed to kick-off to a lesser or greater extent at most matches, if not in the ground then certainly in Hove park or around the Clock Tower
+ gigs? - oh yes indeed, particularly when "skinheads" re-emerged in the early 80s
+ politcal? - N.ireland, the NF, industrial action, the Falklands
+ in general? - I was mugged in 1973 (aged 12) and 1976 (aged 15) and attacked late at night in 1978 and 1979

So, what has changed?

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

short,sharp,shock

remember a screw saying to me when doing double mark time

you haven't met me yet?

no sir

well you ****ing have now!

I could tell you stories that would make your hat spin

 

[BN9 BHA]

I recall many many similar scenes in the 1970/80s when I was young, the only difference being that there were no mobile phones to record it, and maybe that girls weren't involved. When I think about my teenage years I don't think of myself as a victim but as I recall:

+ at school? - yes lots of fights and bullying going on
+ at discos? - yep, regular fights. I was involved in a few
+ at the football? - it seemed to kick-off to a lesser or greater extent at most matches, if not in the ground then certainly in Hove park or around the Clock Tower
+ gigs? - oh yes indeed, particularly when "skinheads" re-emerged in the early 80s
+ politcal? - N.ireland, the NF, industrial action, the Falklands
+ in general? - I was mugged in 1973 (aged 12) and 1976 (aged 15) and attacked late at night in 1978 and 1979

So, what has changed?

I’m a bit younger than you but in answer to your question at the end, I don’t remember young teenagers attacking adults when I was in my teens. I think we would have expected to get a clump if we had fronted up a bloke in his 30s -40s.
I think some young teen boys are mouthy to adults because they know they will probably get away with it.

The news story in the link mentions 11 year olds getting attacked, some of the attacks are very violent. Also seems to be news stories of knife attacks by kids as young as 12. I remember fights at school but only fists being used, no knives or kicking in the head.

 

[BadFish]

Whilst not disputing what you say, I wonder where the motivation comes for those most in need of "something else to do" to actually go and do something that isn't being out on the streets being a menace?

My son goes to all manner of after-school clubs including debate, science, basketball and chess. He goes to scouts and we encourage he attends all activities offered to him there.

But I know that if he didn't do these things, he wouldn't be out on the streets inflicting pain and humiliation on others, videoing the whole thing for shits and giggles.

And, from what we can gather, there is a distinct lack of "troubled kids" at all of these. Those most likely to be involved in trouble don't seem to have the self-interest to take part in extra activites and neither do they have the parental encouragement to do so.

I'm certainly not saying "there's no point - the bad kids don't come", but I am wondering how they do become engaged sufficiently to prefer it to beating people up for social media fun.

You are spot on here. I am not suggesting for a minute that this is the only factor in anti-social behaviour. I was just responding to the talk of youth and sporting clubs and their part in the problem/solution.

It is certainly a complex issue with many many factors affecting anti-social behaviour. I am still unsure if it is an issue that is getting worse but in order to address it, I think there are many avenues to explore. Should their be a desire to explore it of course.

 

[Baldseagull]

Some facts:

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I’d love to see far more frontline and visible police officers. But it can never be a panacea, they can’t be everywhere every time a burglary, assault, rape or robbery’s about to occur.

There is a bit of detail required on the "Public Sector Funding", this is both Central Government and Local Government. Central Government has cut its funding, and Local Authorities have increased their funding since 2010. I believe a greater proportion of Central Government funding is also earmarked solely for anti terrorism efforts over that time, and is not available for other operations.

They can't be everywhere, but if they don't exist they can't be anywhere.